Paul H1

I've got "Die K.B. Schwere Artillerie im Gro?en Kriege 1914-1918" (1928) which is an all-in-one from the "Erinnerungsbl?tter deutscher Regimenter" series, covering all of their units down to the independent detached batteries.

Rick,

It's a piece of the puzzle for Bayern. For the arm overall it's a nightmare...my favorite example (and just one of 1000's):

13./R9 became 6./R6, which became Fussartilleriebatterie 104, which became 3./Fussartillerie Batl. 32.

There are also mistakes in the official history, and the Ehrenbuecher, which doesn't help matters.

Paul

Terrible.... terrible...

I am starting with the Fussartillerie.... a thankless task...

Garde-Fussartillerie-Regiment 1, Unteroffizier d.R. Karl Roepstorff (6th Batterie)

The award was made on the 24th of December 1917,

My only reference puts the II./GFAR 1 with the 28 RD.

251 divs says this was in 1918 and only the 7th and 9th batteries?

Does anyone have a clue?

Thanks

Chris

Chris,

Fussartillerie is a very hard subject, as you know. There's no one-stop-shop, and unless you've had someone do some digging on a unit you're interested it's going to involve at a minimum a trip to the library, or even to one of the archives. There's a lot of material out there (in the archives), but it's not been collected and organized, at least not yet. The Verlag Militaria volumes on the Fussartillerie will be a welcome help.

Without a definitive source it's just guesswork--the units were reorganized so many times that it's just impossible to know without something concrete.

I would imagine as a guard unit it must have a history--check the Mohr book and see--you can get it through inter-library loan for a euro.

Paul

Thanks,

that gives me a rough idea.

Best

Chris

Chris,

Band IX: Feldartillerie, Band 1 u. 2 Handbuch der Verb?nde und Truppen des deutschen Heeres 1914 ? 1918 Die Autoren Dr. phil. J?rgen Kraus, Hartwig Busche.

can only recommend it...

Paul

Not at all Arabic. Probably Dari (though could be Pashto). Different languages, similar scripts, like Polish and English.

Yep, now that makes sense.

Paul

In front is writen fredom medal and the same in arabic.

Backside is writen in english "For service in afghanistan" and a soldier, they climb a rock.

I mean, it will be awarded from the Afghan. gouv. for foreign soldiers!

My feeling is 80% official medal!

You mention it's in English and Arabic--why Arabic? That doesn't really make sense.

Paul

Hello Everyone,

I have purchased two maps of India, one from 1946 (pre-Independence) and one from 1997 of Independent India for comparison. I would like to know how other collectors store their maps as they are now folded and in time will suffer damage from the creasing. I am short on wall space so would the members suggest map tubes as a way of storage?

Thanks for your opinions.

Cheers

Brian

Hello Brian,

I have about 800 maps. They are almost all folded. I bought a file cabinet, with hanging folders and store them there. I understand that would not be a good solution for just a map or two. You could go to a hobby store and they usually sell the large flat containers for sketches--in various forms from leather cases to cardboard variations--those work very well with maps that you want to leave unfolded.

Paul

Ed is right-take for example the French at Gallipoli. I had no idea they were there until an album was sold on eBay last year!

A HUGE gap is the Russo-Turkish front! Nobody seems to know anything about it.

The French Official History covers the French efforts at Gallipoli in detail.

Paul

Paul

Do You know there are any new ones coming out? I have the first three and I'm a little disappointed that the Landwehr and reserves are not in the infantry volume. These are expensive little books! Very good but very expensive.

Hello,

I know there is a whole series planned, I am not sure when the next volume is due out. While at BA-MA Freiburg I checked out a few volumes of orders for Field and Foot artillery. That was interesting to see the actual orders (many signed by Generals near and dear to my heart) ordering the formation of so and so unit, etc.

I hope the next volume out is Footartillery as that's my first love!

Paul

Super,

thanks, my 252 divisons was waaay out on that.

Nice to see you back!

Chris,

You want to see this series on your shelf!

Paul

Band IX:

Feldartillerie, Band 1 u. 2

Handbuch der Verb?nde und Truppen des deutschen Heeres 1914 ? 1918

...(pressed wrong key!!)...only 2000 awards were made, making it rarer the the Knights Cross!

2,000 times between March 1917 and November 1918? Let's say 20 months. That's 100 awards a month, or so.

Paul

That is very interesting. I wonder how many times it was awarded?

Paul

Just saw this today. Should be out soon.

The Brusilov Offensive (Twentieth-Century Battles) by Timothy Dowling. It's in English to boot!

Paul

I wanted to point out a series that covers the East Front, and can be found pretty cheap, but unfortunately only for German speakers, "Der gro?e Krieg in Einzeldarstellungen." Here are some of the titles:

Die Schlacht bei Lodz

Die Befreiung Siebenb?rgens und die Schlachten bei Targu Jiu und am Argesch

Indeed... but until they are accessible to non Russian speakers, they may as well not exist.

A Somme fan who only speaks English.... for them all the German language books may as well not exist. Jack's work in translating the german stuff is a tiny tip of the iceberg, but they seem to lap it up...

I dont think that there is anyone who is going to start translating the Russian stuff any time soon.... for us it may as well not exist :-(

Another thought... How objective do you think it is? I have a translated Russian history of WW2... mentions the Germans marching into Poland, not a word of the Russians marching in.... its a really funny book to read ;-)

Chris,

Yes, I don't we'll see it translated soon. I think it sad thet there is a great deal even online, but as you said, it might as well not exist for us poor non-Russian speakers.

I sure can't speak to the objectivity. As we've discussed even the official works, such as the great "Der Weltkrieg 1914-1918," can have serious agendas.

Paul

Chris,

Not wanting to make you sad, but have a look here:

Russian Books

All Russian texts on the Great War...sigh.

Paul

Chris,

I don't think the six volumes on the war of movement were because it was complicated, I think it's because they are interesting...

Which means, as you pointed out, and I agree, that actually a book on the Eastern Front would be very interesting, as there is some movement, sweeping action, flanks to turn and all that. I agree with Chruchill when he wrote that no aspect of the Great War was more exciting than the movement of the campaigns in the East!

A little bit of German....

Careful there though. That would provide you with a German view of the action, but a true military history would need to include the Russian side of things. I've had a peek into the contents of the Russian archives--amazing what is there!!!!

Paul

Hello Chris,

I'm following you on the battlefield visits. I'm not sure driving around the plains of Poland would give you the same information as a hike through the ravines of Verdun, but I know what you're saying. I've spent enough time in the snow, mud and rain at Verdun to agree with you on the value of seeing the terrain first-hand.

I don't buy the war of movement is more complicated theory. WWII Eastern Front campaigns had a hell of a lot of movement but there are scads of books on the subject. Through on a smaller scale the war if movement in France in 1914 takes up 6 of the 14 volumes of the German OH. In fact, the writers of the history commented on how boring and difficult it was to write about static warfare as opposed to the war of movement.

I think it comes down to lack of interest on the part of writers, researchers and more importantly, publishers.

An interesting point of interest is the relative lack of books on the Eastern Front coming out in English after the fall of communism. I remember in academic Great War circles there was great expectation that now that the "doors to the archives had been thrown open," we would see a flood of new works coming out on the Great War and Russia. There have been a few, but not many, and I don't think any that are real military histories.

Any book on the Eastern Front would either have to be a labor of love, or an academic work as part of a PhD thesis. Trips to the Russian archives, trips to Germany, fleuncy in three languages, or supporting linguistic help= $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

Paul

Another thought....

Maybe the very nature of the Western front makes it easier to research? The lines stay static and you cam pour over maps and documents that you can commit to memory.

See how much more complicated when you try and follow the western front from March to september-October 1918.... a lot more movement and a lot harder to follow.

Now... take this to the Eastern front, mobile warfare, great distances to cover, places that all sound the same and you cannot even begin to pronounce....

Visit the Somme and everything is "There".... years of fighting in a contained space means looking for things of military interest is like shooting fish in a barrel..... visit the eastern front and you can cover hundreds of miles looking for anything of remote interest... and even when you reach a town where they fought for 2-3 days... there is nothing to see, no trace of the war....

Chris,

What kind of resarch to you mean? Battlefield tourism? Research to me means hitting the archives!

Paul

Oh Chris,

You've brought up a theme near and dear to my heart.

I was the proud owner of the "Great War in the East Discussion Group," for a year. We had almost 100 members by the end of the first year, and in one of theose weird internet related twists we had less and less posts as we got more and more members. After a year I decided on the somewhat unpopular course of closing the languishing group.

The main problem was this: The knowledge base was a very small pond with a few fish. Someone would ask a question and it would most of the time go unanswered. Or, someone would bring up something and everybody would jump on it as it was something covered by Stone, lets's say.

I've been fascinated by the Eastern Front since I read Chruchill's book, "The Unknown War," when I was a teenager (excellent book, by the way). I then moved on to wargames and played the excellent SPI, "Great War in the East and Tannenberg," series until the maps were almost worn out.

I'll throw this out as well to chew on, beyond the Eastern Front, many aspects of the war remain in the literary backwaters.

Chris, you brought up Verdun, a subject we both are passionate about. Hold on one mo' though. Name one good in-depth English language military history or analysis of the Battle of Verdun? Horne's book is the best on the subject, but it was written almost 50 years ago, and it's an overview of the battle, at best.

To take it step further no translations of even existing good German works on Verdun have been done. Wendt's in-depth study on Verdun remains a hidden gem. Werth's book, the result of actually interviewing and taping many German Verdun veterans simply begs to be translated in its entirety into English. I tried to get that project started and couldn't find a publisher even interested enough to humour me.

I'm not surprised at the lack of Eastern Front books. There is so little to work on from in English that most English-speaking authors would be scared off the subject. It's one thing to translate a few pages from a German regimental history, another to take a subject, try to write an analysis, using ALL foreign language sources. Throw in the Russian bit and wow, you've got a difficult task.

The money is on the Somme and Ypres. Stray away from the Anglo-centric battles and your potential market falls faster than the value of the dollar against the euro! Even friend Jack Sheldon's books I suspect are used by many readers as a way to bounce the experiences and history of British units off the German units they faced.

As someone pointed out the sources for the front are out there, especially in German--I see them all the time during my research. I could probably walk down to the Wiesbaden library right now, and come home with twenty interesting and informative books on the War in the East.

Stone's book is dated and it doesn't even cover the entire war in the East. A new and in-depth book on the subject have been due for well over thrity years.

It's worth thinking about:

30 years for Stone's book

46 years for Horne's book

There's a reason why these have stood alone for so long and you can't walk through Border's without tripping on another Somme book.

Paul

Just got a picture of this memorial in Germany. Anybody visited there?

That's the Germania (Niederwald Denkmal) in the Rheingau. I've been there many times, as we only live about 15 minutes away. It's a place we usually take people who are visiting us as the view of the Rhein is so beautiful from there.

Here, I added a linked picture from today:

Paul

I would apprecaite a little help with some questions on German army (Prussian, Saxon, Bayern, Wurttemberg) regimental histories. So here goes:

1. Which are the 5 hardest ones to find?

2. Which are the most desirable and sell the fastest on ebay?

3. What is the going price for these books?

Thanks for the help.

Paul,

A but late into this discussion, but it caught my eye. I guess the answer is a matter of perspective. Here in Germany, using the very effecient library system, no regimental history is very hard to find or obtain. For the price of a few euros you can order them through interlibrary loan.

A history that may seem "rare" in other parts could easily be sitting in a small town library, either through a connection with the garrison, or perhaps left to the libray by a local officer at some time.

The going price can vary a whole lot. Specifically on the online auction sites it depends--if you have a few guys who are interested then the price will skyrocket. I've seen a few regimental histories in local bookstores here, and they can be quite inexpensive--but there are always buyers on the prowl, so finding them is hard. I picked up a copy of IR 172 in a local shop just because I saw it there, for a very good price, only to be told by a guy who buys a lot of these that it is very "desirable." To whom exactly, I don't know!

Paul

I have a WW1 biography, one of those that is written in novel form with names changed (I assume).

From what I can see, the unit of the man was refered to as Regiment "Altmark" (his name for it I assume) and in 1914 or 15 it was supposedly commanded by oberstleutnant von busche, the regiments adj. named Cortez.

Any idea od the regt number?

Chris,

Perhaps you can check the regiments raised in the Altmark region (if that too has not been changed, though that would seem odd.) A quick scan of the actions portrayed in the book and compared with actions of the regiments of that area might give you a match. It would be worth a shot if you were that interested.

Paul

One of the web page projects I had been working on was to better describe the armed forces of the various German states when I described the medals of the state. This would help both in giving greater color to the story behind the medal, and also in identifying possible units for particular medals and combos.

Unfortunately, this has turned into something which is both too much and too little at the same time. Too much in the sense of a long-winded description that gets in the way of just seeing the medals, but too little in that you really can't provide an encyclopedic guide given the resources available.

Anyway, today I started typing up a quick summary of one state's military, as an update, to see how the new framework would look. After about 6 pages, I realized it might be too much. And yet there still seem to be glaring omissions. Any feedback would be appreciated.

The state in question is the Grand Duchy of Hesse. I picked it to start out because it is not as big a project as the five major states which raised multiple divisions, but has more to it than some of the smaller states.

http://home.att.net/~ordersandmedals/germany/hessearmy.htm

By the way, in a less detailed approach, I also expanded the section on the Bavarian Army on its page to include more than just the regular army: http://home.att.net/~david.danner/militaria/bavaria.htm#2

The story of the Bavarians in the war could fill a book, so this is an even more cursory summary than Hesse.

I also expanded Anhalt: http://home.att.net/~david.danner/militaria/anhalt.htm#2

This might be a more minimalist approach for a smaller state.

Of course, the lack of images of a lot of decorations is still the biggest problem for the web site.

Dave,

Funny timing this. I just completed a study of the pre-war organization of XVIII. AK (Hessen) and a map to go along with it. Your information for 25. division looks spot on.

Best Regards,

Paul