TS Allen

Nice uniform! Do you have a close-up picture of one of the buttons? Thanks.

Hello James,

I think these are the closest pictures I have. The buttons seem to be plain brass. These come from the eBay auction, the uniform's shipping to me now.

Do you have any more information on what it is? I know W. Britain's Soldiers of the World set no. 190, "Belgian Cavalry," shows this uniform. Is it pre-WWI as I suspect?

~TS

Here are some better images.

Also, I just realized, I don't believe this is technically a hussar uniform, although it conforms to that Europe-wide pattern.

~TS

Hello all,

I saw this Belgian Hussar uniform (misidentified as French) on eBay a few days ago and decided that, whatever it was, I'd buy it if the bidding didn't go much higher than it was at. I won it with one bid above the price it was at then, and I know now that I almost accidentally bought one of the uniforms on my check-off list: It's a Belgian military uniform from the late nineteenth century!

I know that by 1900 the Belgian cavalry had all switched over to double-breasted tunic, so this uniform predates that. Looking at some pictures of the Belgian military musuem, I can just make out this exact uniform in the background. The coloration is identical, and it seems that a lot of Belgian uniforms from this period used this pattern.

My guess is that this uniform dates from between 1870-1900. Can anyone help me give it a more exact date?

Thanks,

~TS

I'm sorry Liegh, I mistyped. I meant to write "Native Courts." I have no idea where tribal came from.

I'm not sure if they were ever used in India, although that is possible. I see a lot of armbands that were apparently designed to be pinned on, such as this, although they aren't what is generally seen I guess it doesn't rule out it being an official British armband.

Its possible that based on the color we can identify it to a specific colony...

I'll keep an eye out.

~TS

I'll dig it out, as I remmeber it may be set in partcularly large type & does'nt have many pages, it may be easy to scan it for a thread.

That'd be greatly appreciated, Leigh!

Also, I found Mad Mitch's New York Times obituary (since may of the British obits were written by his Tory allies, I'd trust this one more than some others). It says that he enlisted in the Home Guard at 17, and was the youngest member at the time.

Going back to a much earlier post in this thread, how late was it common to see boy-commissioned officers leading troops in to combat? I'm curious how that worked out, as some earlier stated that 12- and 13- year old boys led men into battle! As the average age of the British soldier before the end of the "life" enlistment was somewhat older than that (somewhere in the 30's, I beleive) its a very alarming though!

~TS

Is there anywhere where I could read "Mercie Sunshine's Chats About Soldiers?"

Also, I'm fairly sure that Lt. Col. Mitchell, mentioned earlier as a possible boy soldier, was 15 when the Home Guard was started up in the summer of 1940. I checked and he was born in 1925...

~TS

Forgive my ignorance, but, exactly what medal is that ribbon (well, not a ribbon, but the proper term escapes me) for?

Thanks,

~TS

Hello

That is one of the most beautiful medal bars I've ever seen! Sometime in the last ninety years medals just loss some element of workmanship.

Just a thought, though, One Year Volunteers were enlisted men who could expect promotion to officer rank. I would think that if a young German man from a middle class family enlisted in the Army in 1914 to do a year of service with the standard OYV expectation that he leave the active service to serve several years in the reserves, it would make sense for him to be at the front or otherwise too occupied to enter the reserves as an officer in 1915. The reservists were largely called up, few people were leaving the service, and thus it would seem plausible that an OYV would have been stuck in the army for just a bit longer, where there is greater need for him.

Then, later in the war, the bureaucrats come to their senses about this young man, realize that his social standing and immense performance make this man suitable for a Lieutenantcy, and promote him either in the regulars or the reserves?

I only have a passing knowledge of medals and such, but, this seems plausible to me based on my knowledge of pre-war conscription practices. I have no idea if all of this fits in with the promotion practices, which are another beast, although I'd love to know!

~TS

I'm quite sure that the British did use th term "Tribal Courts" to refer to local judicial bodies in the African colonies, at least around the WWII period.

The lettering also matches other British armbands from the WWII period until at least the 1950's. The embroidery is identical to all of the period armbands I've seen, largely the common "Civil Defense Corps" armbands. The font is a simple sans serif, the embroidery of the individual letters is all done the same.

Now, the material and construction aren't what I've seen, it looks to be wool; but, it is colonial so who knows! Someone else on this forum does, that's who knows. Also, is it an armband or just a patch? It doesn't seem to have a back side.

~TS

Well, you have to admit, it is pretty...

Out of curiosity, how much is it really worth? I'd not think of paying 1100 euros for it, but, looking at it, I might pay $30 for it, and indeed, probably overpay what it's worth!

~TS

Satisfying to see that most of what this fellow did can be documented!

Also, Kimj, is there a chance of getting a higher resolution copy of that picture of him as a White Russian general? If I can, I'd like to save it for future reference, and I'd prefer the best-quality copy of it I can get.

Thanks,

~TS

Hello,

If I remember correctly, OTC wore enlisted pattern uniforms with special insignia. He's wearing an officer's pattern uniform but, he looks a bit young to be a cadet, so, he could have been an instructor.

The Sam Browne belt looks right, but, beyond the hat, his trousers are positively horrid (the cuff shouldn't be there!). I wonder about the shoes, as well, the toes don't seem rounded enough to me to be ammo boots.

~TS

Hello Merv,

This wouldn't have been worn in the field during the Boer War. The HLI, along with everyone else, wore field order, which for infantry at this time meant the foreign service pith helmet. Sorry to disappoint. As I'm sure you're aware, Boer War field-worn items are insanely rare, Frankly, I'd wouldn't be caught wearing one of these out fighting Boers, I'd be liable to be shot first!

On another note, anybody heard the song "Eight Battalion HLI Crossing the Rhine?" At least, I think that's the right battalion number... Good tune.

~TS

Hello,

Does anyone know if these were reintroduced for the band recently (ie in the last fifty years)? I know that RE officers stopped wearing the busby with the introduction of the bluecloth for the RE in, er, 1881?

Thanks,

~TS

Hello Jonathan,

I've seen handfuls of medallions got above a few hundred dollars, but generally when I see Napoleonic medallions they're in the $100-$200 range.

Artistically, its a stunning piece, although I'll say that the figure on the back doesn't strike me as particularly beautiful. Wellington though, and of course, that's the most important part, looks great! Now you just need one with Napoleon! Hahaha.

~TS

Jamie,

Are either of the helmets named? They're gorgeous, always fascinating to see these sorts of pieces.

Also, Leigh, please do post that card! I'd love to see it!

~TS

Hello all,

I do believe that the leave policy never granted home leave to enlisted men in this period. Leave was fairly rare for EM's for extended periods, the whole reason that officers could fairly easily take extended periods (6 months, on occasion!) "off" from their regiments was because the War Office benefited from it. The officers frequently wandered off into combat situations and gained valuable experience. And, in any event, the officer's couldn't spend to much time in camp, they may very will turn in to professionals!

I can't recall the book that first explained this to me, but the idea has fascinated me ever since.

~TS

Hello everyone,

I've been involved in collecting US and British uniforms from the pre-WWI period for some time. I've enjoyed it immensely, but, I often come across French uniforms that strike me as historic, beautiful, and generally well priced. Because of this, I'd like to get more involved in collecting pre-WWI and WWI French militaria.

So, I'm asking everyone if they'd be willing to share a few of their sources for militaria from this period with me. I speak a very little bit of French, but, I can usually smash my way through translating website (God forbid I have to send an inquiring email, of course!). I'm looking for any militaria companies, on the web or off, French, American, British, or anywhere else, that specialize in French militaria from about the Second Empire to the end of WWI. All I need is a URL, an address, a phone number, or any other way to contact them and start asking questions about what they have in stock.

Any help is greatly appreciated,

~TS

Hello,

With measurements and more detailed pictures we can do a lot more.

A gun from the reign of Henry VIII would be incredibly rare, and also, probably wouldn't look like this! Generally, earlier guns are more "straight," they don't decrease as much in overall width as you move towards the muzzle. This piece looks eighteenth century to me, the script does, as well.

Also, looking quickly at a book I have, "Round Shot and Rammers," by Harold L. Peterson, which covers US artillery (and thus, early on, many English pieces), an English brass demi-cannon from 1542 has a Rose and Crown device, a piece from 1554, a brass minion, a royal shield. Some of them have fox-head decorations on them, none have medusas.

I suspect civilian, although, if its located in the US or South America, it could have seen military use. When Henry Knox set up the American artillery corps, he took whatever he could get. The same was true in much of the world, during the siege of Ladysmith, Redvers Buller used a bronze artillerypiece on a naval carriage called "Lord Nelson" in the defense of the town. The Boers as late as the Jameson raid also had at least one well-known bronze gun, the name escapes me (I can look it up if anyone's interested, I know where the book is). And, of course, non-military medusa-heads and nautical guns could very well increase the pure monetary value, as it suddenly becomes a potential pirate piece!

Also, a description of the material would help me in identifying it. It appears to be iron, but painted, who can tell? To quote the book "Given the almost infinite variety of 16th and 17th century cannon, it is nearly impossible to offer valid generalizations concerning sizes, materials, or colors. Except for the wrought iron swivel guns and the leather cannon, almost all artillery of this era was cast in bronze. The iron pieces were painted black as a rule,though some appear to have been coated with red lead only. Bronze pieces were normally kept clean." Later weapons are a different story, but, I can be of help there with the material as well! An iron gun of above a certain size can be said to be unlikely or impossible before a certain date, a steel gun, and we all get to talk about the Krupps!

The book also allows me to check many of the potential shot sizes/ guns types for later years, its very complete in this respect, so please, more measurements! And, as the gun is English, only Imperial units (we may as well call them American units any more) will do!

~TS

The Franklin expedition, BTW, deserves its own thread. The story behind these guys is fascinating. The reason they are so well-preserved is probably because of lead remaining in their system, from the seals on their tin food.

I was fascinating by a book on the expedition when I was about 5 and this information came out. (I'm dating myself, yes, I am just that young!)

~TS

Okay, I can understand the colored service caps, but, bearskins? They didn't also slug around their full dress with them when in service dress, did they? Or did they wear the bearskin with service dress?

~TS

I was under the impression the Broderick cap was also a particularly rigidly formed item. Why was it so much easier to store "crushed" than the peaked cap?

(And no, despite how that question is posed, I don't expect an answer from Pte. Richards . I'm sure someone here has an answer.)

~TS

The SS buckle may make sense if he also held honorary rank in the SS, right? He also has a party badge, so that would be a good indicator as far as source.

If you go back to the image of the officers with Hitler, one of them is clearly wearing a decorative buckle rather than the standard SA claw type. Could it also be an SS buckle?

Going out further on a limb, is it possible that this was just common practice in the RAD? To wear SS buckles? We need to look through more photographs...

~TS

Officially speaking, the left collar held a disk with a US, above the regimental number. The right disk held Branch of Service, above a copmany designation. NA (for "National Army") or NG (for "National Guard" could be superimposed above the US on the left collar.

The above is according the the 1917 National Geographic which featured all of the service's insignia and flags as a special feature, and was for a long time a common collector reference.

These regulation were entirely ignored during the war. The AEF was, in many respects, an organizational disaster, and it simply wasn't practical to try to provide each unite with the correct insignia. It seems that during the war, most units went over to simply wearing US on the left collar and Branch of Service insignia on the right.

This simplification may also have been a nod to unit security, as the AEF clearly understood the importance of keeping enemy intelligence from being able to easily keep track of American units.

Marine Corps units were originally composed of numbered companies. As the initially lacked any collar insignia, many Marine Corps units transitioned to crossed infantry rifles (all USMC units that served on active duty in Europe were infantry) with a company number superimposed on them, despite this being clearly Army insignia. As one vet later said, "it's what we had!"

~TS

The GWOTSM is the more commonly awarded of the two, it appears, because its been around for longer and also because, compared to the Iraq War Medal, it's awarded for service in a much wider area.

I was talking to a Naval Academy midshipman, and he says its not uncommon for mids to have the GWOTSM! Not the prior-enlisted types either, they can earn one on a thirty-day summer cruise in the Persian Gulf!

~TS