Vit67

8 hours ago, Simius Rex said:

 

Well, well, Vitaly.  Everybody's favorite russian fraudster and faker of medal bars resurfaces.

 

For your information, the downloaded and enlarged photos of the EK ri...

8 hours ago, Simius Rex said:

I didn't know that I need to ask your permission to post my opinion. Right or wrong.

As per attempt to insult me, no offense taken. 

8 hours ago, Simius Rex said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

EK ribbon is a repro. All ribbons folded differently, no padding whatsoever, not to mention poor craftsmanship in general.

Hardware is not a period piece 

If combined cost of the awards in this group will cover the spendings, don't bother to return it 

With ingredients like these, I would produce a piece of art 

Regards

Vitaly 

Hi.

Nice little group.

This Rising sun is 6th class.

5th has golden plated large rays.

Treasure, I believe is also of 6th class.

I will try to make a suggestion on dating both Ordens:

Showa period some 1940s 

Regards

Vitaly 

Hello gentlemen

I am looking for opinions on this order 

Also would appreciate if you could tell me the price range for this piece.

1 hour ago, VtwinVince said:

I detect some very disingenuous behaviour on this thread.

If you mean me - you are wrong. I am absolutely sincere. It wasn't easy for me to go trough all this ordeal. Different thoughts were crossing my mind, I even wanted to "slam the door" and go "underground"... but then again thanks to all negative and positive responses I can say - I will make, repair, rebuild  and sell my medal bars openly.

And one more thing - I will never apologize for what I am doing. If it feels right it can't be wrong.

For myself  it is a period.

To be honest this discussion (and many others)  were extremely useful. At this moment I have complete understanding of the current situation.  Of course there are people who will hate me, but  there also will be supporters or at least  people who like what I do. I hardly react on insults and attempts to undermine my activity or devalue my efforts (you have to agree it takes hours and hours of research, not just steady hands for stitching)

I have decided to go public, I will create a website where I will offer my services.

THANK YOU ALL!!!  You all helped me a lot.

P.S.

Have you seen this one? I build it for myself

On 18/10/2021 at 11:18, hagahr said:

1. Vit67, ?
   
   ......
   
   But the upright standing for your work and replies here made me think I should salute you.
   
   By this I do.
   
   Regards Kay

On 18/10/2021 at 11:18, hagahr said:

H Kay

Thank you very much! I appreciate it, a lot!

 

There was Some progress on this bar

1.  I have disassembled it

2. Sourced  some medals (including hilâl-i ahmer madalyasir)

3. Started to mount medals on to carrier ribbons

Need to buy only 5 medals so far: Bulgarian commemorative medal, Sachsen Meiningen für Verdienst im Kriege, Lippe-Detmold kriegsverdienstkreuz, S.E.H.O  and Hausorden vom Weißen Falken (last two  are costly but easy to find)

Red Crescent

When I removed the ribbons inside of some of  them  I found rings belonged to original awards

it looks like they were just ripped off....

this is how I found out which Faithful Service cross supposed to be there....

4 minutes ago, Claudius said:

 

No, citizen arrests are more common with apprehensions for community police departments.  Federal agencies wouldn't recognize or allow citizens to undertake their arrests.  They use judges to sign warrants for search and seizures.

I see. I was sarcastic.

Just because I really don't know what to say in response yo your post with all the scary abbreviations . 

Citizen arrest?

46 minutes ago, Simius Rex said:

I have followed Vitaly's posts both here and in WAF and I am convinced he is nothing more than an attention-whore (who also happens to be skillful at needlecraft.)  He enjoys the recognition, controversy and consternation he creates by flaunting his flawless forgeries

I do like recognition of my skills ( of any kind actually) nothing wrong with it.

Trust me I can enjoy selling my forgeries quietly.

It looks like this is the best way... unfortunately.

4 minutes ago, Triadoro said:

 

I have a sneaking suspicion that you're deriving a tremendous amount of satisfaction from reading that even the forum's experts failed to detect that your creation is a forgery... passing a litmus test, so to speak.  

 

It reminds me of the movie "My Fair Lady" when Professor Higgins introduces Liza Doolittle to London's high-society and nobody even remotely suspects she is actually a working class Cockney.  Regards

Very close but not exactly.  The fact that I am not ashemed and not apologizing for my doing, doesn't make me a criminal.

I  really,  really don't want to work  for a "black market". 

We need to learn to co-exist.  I just triggered the process that exposed problems, most of the people  find hard to accept.

Regards

Vitaly

5 minutes ago, Claudius said:

 

Just how good of a reproduction is it?  How is the stitching under the felt look?  Do the threads glow under black light?

Nothing glows. Here is the stitching under the felt.

2 hours ago, Simius Rex said:

 

I thought you were engaged in the restoration aspect of medal bars.  Some weeks ago, you presented us with a Frackschnalle in sad condition that you were proposing to restore.  Has your work evolved into creating forgeries to the dismay and contempt of medal bar collectors everywhere???

 

Never said that. What I have said: repair/restore/rebuild

12 minutes ago, CRBeery said:

Who made the bar?

I did.

29 minutes ago, lew said:

Not sure about that, the white falcon order is still too tall compare to the original stitching trace even without the ring

Detailed inspection showed that the KVK ribbon has very distinctive dent left after contact with the large rounded object, most likely the crown.  ring could've  been removed prior mounting or simply turned down, all medals were stitched around jumprings it would provide decent holding strength.

Also I have noticed that threads for this purpose  were carefully picked according to the medal's color.  That gives a clue for Faithful service award - golden color threads suggests 40 years service award.

I will try to research this bar anyway. We will see where it brings me.  

I did some mock-up in PS.  Added White Falcon, Saxe-Ernestine House-Order, and Lippe Detmold cross.  Sizes are 99% correct, knowing the measurements of the KVK =47,5mm  and measurements of the other orden we can figure out  size of the awards in the mock up.

Well it looks like there might be no number 5 at all. (the one between Saxe-Ernestine House-Order and Lippe Detmold)

I wonder, with this set of awards would it be possible to research the owner? I actually have no idea where to start. I would love to try. Any suggestions?

5 hours ago, laurentius said:

Despite the suggestions made by other members I reiterate my opinion that the third decoration on the red ribbon should be the Saxe-Weimar-Eisenach Order of the White Falcon. The silver merit cross of this order could be placed there as well, as was recommended by another member

 The idea about silver merit cross was based on the location of the stitching point where the missing orden was attached to backing ribbon.   White Falcon has a crown which makes it "taller" than other awards and therefore mounting point should be higher,  and actual mounting point is located slightly higher than KVK on the 2nd place.

But! this bar is Frakspange and if White Falcon would've  been mounted under the angle and leveled based on the center line, then it fits perfectly. (to make sure I will make a cardboard mockup of the orden and try it)

If this is true then your suggestion about Saxe-Ernestine House-Order becomes a highly possible option

Laurentius, thank you for your opinion!

1 hour ago, Simius Rex said:

I've seen the OP's work on another forum.  The medal bars look a bit sterile... too perfect, devoid of character, conveying no sense of history.

It makes sense. I am actually was thinking about it.  

1 hour ago, Simius Rex said:

  At least write to Wilfried Freitag in Bad Dreiburg and buy some prewar Abdecktuch for heaven's sake.    

 Thank you for advice! I will do. (I suppose, this is what forums are for)

I knew, when I started to  show what I do,  it will be controversial, but I kinda love it and believe this sort of activity is absolutely normal. And eventually I will be very very good at this. And my supplies will be 300% authentic.

However  I  have no intention to  be in shadows, I see no benefit for me to produce bars from scratch  purely for resale purpose. 

Anyway.  good discussion. Thank you all.

Can we get back to 2 missing awards on the subject please?

Restoration - the act or process of returning something to its earlier good condition or position, or to its owner. (Cambridge Dictionary)

Lets take a look at Medal bars as subject of collecting.

Problem with them is: in 9 cases out of 10 we are unable to  answer these questions:

- Who was the owner of the bar

- Who made/manufactured  the bar

- When it was manufactured

(Unless, of course, if "experts" with Chrystal ball, just looking at the picture of the bar can determine all of the  above.)

Effectively it denominates  item from "historical artifact" to a nicely arranged display of some random awards. Value of this bars equals monetary value of the medals on it. No significant  historical value whatsoever. (but yet still some history, if awards and ribbons  are authentic, )

If you buying a medal bar even with manufacturer label on it, say on a military fair, you choose to believe, without any  serious expertise, that this item is an  artifact, - please be my guest, it is surely a sophisticated way...

Absolutely different story with items furnished with solid provenance,  in the form  of  certificates, pictures of the owner with particular medal bar/ribbon bar. Normally items like this very well preserved, easily traceable etc, and do not require any manipulation.  Items like these are extremely valuable in my eyes - would never touch them.

All above makes  such items "lucky" everybody loves them, cherish them...

What about abused bars? Like the  one at the top? Medals just ripped off,  and if not restored it will be taken apart, sold by pieces, leftovers just dumped and ....boom! it's gone. Not on my watch: I find them, buy them, if possible research and and  restore. In difficult for me cases I always will be asking community to help in Id and other information that may help me.

6 hours ago, Triad08 said:

would generate little - if any - serious interest from sophisticated and discriminating collectors. 

Oh I am familiar with this classification: there are few types of people collectors:

- Pure, sophisticated type, they are the best, crème de la crème

- Others, lowlifes, third sort, "Souval hoarders" etc.

30 minutes ago, Triad08 said:

 

 

Ironically, you already provided us with a demonstration of this phenomenon.  This morning on Wehrmacht Awards Forum's E-Stand, you listed and subsequently sold one of your completely redone medal bars.  It features fresh, bright-colored ribbons and a modern, red felt backing.  Unfortunately, you forgot to disclose in your description the fact that it was a brand-new creation:

https://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/forum/the-militaria-e-stand/medals-badges-awards-table/12407223-2-place-medal-bar-kvk-ostmedaille

 

I totally understand your point and respect your position, but you are wrong about above bar.  I don't do Prussian style bars. Too simple.

This one came to me without the awards in a large lot of damaged medal bars I have purchased recently. For some reason pictures look better than they are in real life, ribbons are faded and slightly worn.  There is nothing wrong with that bar. 

Besides I  have declared multiple times at WA forum that I do repair/restore/rebuild  medal bars and also my position on that matter. It is not a secret.  There is some people  who find it hard to accept, but at the same time there are many who  are sure it is not a crime. I can admit that I am capable of building ANY bar from scratch, but I am interested in large, complex restoration project like the one presented in here,  I also do  repair bars for  other people (missing medals, ribbons etc.) 

2 hours ago, lew said:

You are dangerous?

 

I will take it as a complement.

Thank you for helping in IDing 3rd award.

I recon 2 missing ones also some merit awards from other German states?

What those might be? (At this moment it looks like it is virtually impossible to  research this bar, isn't it?) 

3 minutes ago, lew said:

Now I tend to believe it's a merit cross of white falcon on 3rd place judging from the tear down picture where it shows very low position where the medal was stitched on. Officer cross has a huge crown and much taller than merit cross. 

 

 

Would you mind to show the reverse? 

7 minutes ago, laurentius said:

Why strip the ribbons and ruin what's left of a great bar? Seems unwise to say the least.

How will I put the medals back on? I need to disassemble the bar, attach medals to the backing ribbons.

Besides, I am capable of putting them back together the way it was.  I even use period correct threads.

Just as an example. this one fully restored (it was even in much worse condition as the big one)

Since I will strip all the ribbons anyway, I took off the one in question, number 3

Also i have marked all backing ribbons that match the awards, only few of them don't match.

Interestingly, for awards number 3 and one that supposedly is Osman red crescent, same backing ribbons were used,