v.Perlet

Hello saschaw,

The article states that original EK II's 1870 do NOT have maker marks on the ring

Regards

Andreas

hello Iew,

I have no problem with the existing categorization.

However not everyone is an experienced knowledgeable collector - as such, I will try to stay on the safe side and only collect in regards to German imperial awards, as to what I described to be Original I and Original II, and even that isn't easy, at least for me ?

Regards

Andreas

Interesting thread,

okay here is my point of view for German Imperial awards - maybe starting the other way around.

1. A Fake is an award that is made to deceive collectors about being an Original or Reproduction

2. A Replica is a copy of an award but openly described/admitted to as such. usually easy to identify

3 An original can/should be divided into 2 subcategories

a. Original I.  produced from 1914-1918 or e.g. a German China Medal 1901-1902

b. Original II. purchased privately/produced from known makers till August 1919

On August 11th 1919 the Weimar Constitution went into effect - as such no more awarding of Imperial medals.

4. Reproduction I. awards produced by known makers with original tools from August 1919 to 1932

5. Reproduction II. awards produced by known makers with original tools from 1932 - 1945

E.g. an EK1 produced in 1952 even with original tools from a known maker would be a Fake, or one could further the classifications into a 6. Reproduction III - which to me is of no collecting interest - which does not exclude the possibility of collectors - specializing/interested in such Reproduction III items.

In the case of the Ottoman award produced e.g. in Germany by a known maker:

Could only be categorized into being an:

Orininal II.

Reproduction I.

Reproduction II.

Since I personally wouldn't know as to differentiate an EK1 (14) from 1920 to one produced in 1940 I do not collect knowingly Reproductions I and II.

Independent of the "ruling" classifications, these are my personal criteria for my collection.

Regards

Andreas

Hello LuckySlevin,

I got no idea as to what the seller is asking for - but for me personally I wouldn't purchase it.

The ribbons (aside maybe the Bavaria Service ribbon) look like from yesterday, and the MVK 2nd Class seems to be in a bad shape/condition.

The bar in its medal composition is actually very common. 

see Photo of a bar in my collection.

Regards

v.Perlet

1 hour ago, Eric Stahlhut said:

...... for me, part of the satisfaction of collecting comes from finding things that are "out in the wild" and not on a dealer website or on a dealer's table or store

Hello Eric Stahlhut,

well I guess you "hit the nail on the head" but I feel that those (we) "hunters" are a

dying species.

Since the internet e.g. ebay started to replace flee and collector flee-markets - the "professionals" e.g. dealers started to come in as well and set the prices. After all it's their business and livelihood.

Participating initially as collectors many of those then decided to join this business - becoming professionals themselves. And the internet certainly made it possible to thoroughly sweep the local market - to national market - to the international market between 1990 - today.

As such even a non-knowledgeable person can (if he wants to) find out what exactly he has and what it's worth by simply placing in on a website such as here or sending a photo to a professional.

The question to me is rather - will the market remain stable for a certain period or will prices continue to rise? and if yes well just pay the so-called Market-price to who ever offers an item that I might long for. 

So I am still hunting for a desirable item and hopefully might make a bargain.

The real problem to me is the extreme rise in fakes due to those ever increasing prices.

Regards

Andreas

thanks for the photos - to me everything looks okay.

Regards

v.Perlet

8 minutes ago, GODISHIGH said:

So no issues with it concerning authenticity? 
Thanks 
John

So far I don't see much of concern - but that is why i had asked you for a manufacturers name or indication regarding the tags/labels. Any better photo or closeup on the inner liner?

Regards

v.Perlet

Hello John,

Looks to me like Magdeburgisches-Husaren-Rgt. Nr. 10

Nicknamed; Spinach with Egg Regiment - due to it's green and yellow colors.

The Button No. only indicates the Esquadron, so in this case 2nd Esquadron

Any readable City-name or Manufacturer on the tag?

Regards

v.Perlet

On 21/02/2022 at 01:06, VtwinVince said:

I believe the only genuine full size examples with marked ring are from Louis Lemke, but I'm no EK expert, so perhaps someone more knowledgeable can confirm.

According to the following research - No

http://www.medalnet.net/Eisernes_Kreuz_1870.htm

Regards

v.Perlet

There you go

Litewka or kleiner Rock M15 for Leutnant im 1. Badischen Leib-Dragoner-Regiment Nr. 20

Regards

v.Perlet

Despite the watermark on the paper, I am actually very surprised that there is no chop or stamp

on this document - over or under Mielke's signature.

Regards

v.Perlet

Hello saschaw,

It was in reference to an original sized EK2 1870 - which does not behold markings, as for a Miniature I wouldn't know, since I have never encountered one. - therefore I forwarded that I fully agree with Vtwin Vince comments, but regarding markings not appearing on a miniature EK2, I can only fully agree towards this comment in regards to an original sized EK2.

Assuming that e.g. Godet might have made Prinzengroesse EK70' - I could well imagine that the numbers and other details would have been made as correct as possible.

But anyhow you already forwarded that "This type is well-know and widely considered fake".

Regards

v.Perlet

22 hours ago, Chris Boonzaier said:

Wow... I never thought this post would take on such dimensions! A really interesting discussion indeed.... way more complcated than I thought.

 

I am assuming then it was possibly made in italy for Export to China or Japan? From the quality and the production I would have guessed a Factory in Europe if early 1910-20.

 

Having said that... the addition of a horseshoe is confusing....

Hello Chris,

yes the horseshoe is irritating or confusing.

That is why I initially suggested, made for a western customer e.g. Italy or by Italy

On my part - I couldn't define/proof as to where it was actually made, besides taking note of the "Yi"

Regards

v.Perlet

hello VFMR,

speaking only for myself: I wouldn't purchase it.

The figures of the number 1870 are not matching to a real sized Typ A or Typ B, neither in regards to an overlapping 8, nor a flat 8.

A skilled jeweler -  someone like e.g. GODET "maybe" manufacturing such an item from around 1900 or rather afterwards would know about these features.

I also would fully agree with VtwinVince comments, whereas the comment regarding markings would refer to original sized EK's.

Regards

v.Perlet

1 hour ago, JapanX said:

My humble tribute.

 

 Wo liest Du da "für"?

Regards

V.Perlet

On 29/01/2022 at 02:24, Chris Boonzaier said:

Hi,

 

does anyone know which language this is?

 

It is on a picture frame with a horseshoe entwined with 2 dragons...

 

Thanks

Chris

Hello Chris,

today I finally got to meet my Chinese friend and history professor.

The Characters are old Chinese - Traditional Chinese, and those used before the 1920's. They are naturally read from right to left.

Every individual Character stands for it's own word/meaning - one can not combine those Characters

So my translation according to traditional Chinese is actually almost correct - the Character I defined to be that of Dragon is wrong and the 1st character (bottom line) could mean Italy - but also something totally different.

However the fun part is the bottom line (4 Characters) these are only meaningful in Japanese as such my translation approach was wrong since Japanese characters can be put together to form a very different meaning.

In conclusion the Board's writing is in traditional Chinese characters - but spoken/translated according to Japanese meanings/wordings.

Translation from Japanese to English

Top line: 實用 新案 登錄 New proposals  for smaller works - in German it sounds better;  Neuer Vorschlag für kleinere Arbeiten

2nd line: 第八八六四號 Article No. 8864

3rd line: 意匠 登録 Design Registration

Regards

v.Perlet

Beautiful Orders - thanks for sharing. Lucky you ?

Regards

v.Perlet

The only place I found with that distinctive facade cladding - the size of the panels would also match, seems to be the ex Mussolini party building/structure in Turin near the Piazza Vittorio Veneto Torino

I do admit that this 2 story building with the Japanese flag - kind of disturbs the idea with Turin.

However I simply can't find a photo depicting a column or structure still standing in today's Italy that would resemble the one on the photos.

I am just giving it a try?

Regards

v.Perlet

54 minutes ago, Bayern said:

v Perlet, you refers to the fact that the collar piping of the the tunic is not plain ?

Hello Bayern,

i was referring to Markd's comment of; twisted braid edging

I am assuming that he is referring to the piping, which for privates and NCO's is the same, being yellow.

Only officers piping's would be in silver.

The distinction between a private and an NCO is in regards to the added Tressen on the collar, reflecting the same style as on the shoulder-boards.

Regards

Andreas

Indeed a very interesting collector item - and extremely hard to come by - congrats!

I have only seen one being offered - and that was more then 20 years ago.

Regards

v.Perlet

Hello dksck,

I don't quite understand your questions or rather questioning.

Ersatz - "replacement" is a German term that refers to everything in daily life not just military issues. E.g. Ersatzrad - replacement/spare tire, Ersatzteil - replacement/spare part.

A front-line commanding officer would call for Ersatz due to reduced/insufficient numbers of soldiers This request for Ersatz would however need to be directed towards his immediate superior command, e.g. Company to Battalion, Battalion to Regiment, and so on. - This Ersatz would then come form either Reserve Battalions or via redirecting troops within the existing strength of e.g. a Division.

The Army High Command would also need to request or demand for Ersatz towards the bureaucratic institutions governing the subject of draftees and basic training.

Nachersatz would be the term used within the bureaucratic institutions - e.g. the draft recruiting department

Soldiers called up via draft can be found to be unsuitable later on, or e.g. badly hurt during basic training, or simply forwarding an official letter stating that they are urgently needed for non-military related matters and as such are no more available for service = therefore they are no more considered to be Ersatz.

In that case these "Abgaenge" discharged persons or outflow need to be replaced via Nachersatz. These in turn coming in as new draftees or from the Ersatz Reserve who's members were serving or had served in the Landsturm.

I hope this helps to answer your question

Regards

v.Perlet

Regards

v.Perlet

Hello 1812 Overture,

okay you are Chinese - I am a German, so you got the advantage?

I had send a photo to some of my Chinese friends (all going to school in the 60-80s' onward) none of them can read it, also not their parents. (whereas the parents includes two retired teachers). therefore I have to assume that it is the Kanji writing of before 1910/20. of which I have extremely limited knowledge.

Since we both know, that a pin-jin character stands for 4 different words/meanings but a Kanji letter only for one - therefore kanji encompasses around 80,000 characters whilst pin-jin "only" beholds around 8000 characters and characters can be joined to form different words - In Kanji you can't, at least not to my knowledge?

Only those vivid Japanese manage to do this with their remaining 500? characters.

Maybe you meant to say something else, but a Chinese character certainly doesn't derive from Japanese. !

1. It is not modern Chinese Characters - the previous Kanji writing was changed around 1910'20 and again simplified in the late 70's early 80's. in China.  Henceforth being referred to as Pin-Yin.  If I am correct also in Japan via reducing thousands of Kanji characters to around 500. And old Chinese writing (Kanji) is read from right to left.

E.g. HK, Taiwan, and Chinese written newspapers in Malaysia or Singapore also still sometimes use the non-simplified kanji, aka the old Chinese writing. (the latter place is where I grew up and went to school)

2. If you would read it as you say from left to right, then the number would be 4688, but you yourself say and state correctly 8864 - So you are also reading it from right to left. (at least the numbers). And reading from left to right would mean:

Dragon, Mounted, Table, New, Use, True/Indented - sounds a bit weird?

3. Bottom line from right to left reads Yi Chang

1st character on the right being Yi

2nd character from the right being Chang

4. you wrote Login (actually Long jin - which is modern Chinese pin-yin for Golden Dragon 龍金 but the Kanji character stands only for Dragon 錄

Chang - stands to my understanding for highly or very skilled worker

Yi Chang in sequence could mean Italian, highly skilled Worker.

Besides the 3 claws - I fail to understand as were you see anything on the board in regards to being made in Japan. 日本

Looking forward to your kind reply

Regards

Andreas

Hello norwest78

In regards to what other possible topic - aside from "wreath laying ceremony" did you come across these photos?

Regards

v.Perlet

The Medal in Gold of the Order of Independence and Freedom in regards to the 2nd Sino-Japanese war.

1. from a veteran friend of my father in law

2. sold on a some site for around 500Euro

Feel free to judge and analysis or your own behalf.

Regards

Andreas