Chris Dale

Great photo Mark, thanks very much for posting it!

This was the uniform they wore in cold weather- http://s400910952.websitehome.co.uk/germancolonialuniforms/new%20guinea%20police.htm

Cheers

Chris

Great thread and great photos too!

Here's another photo of Raben, presumably pre-war (from Col J's collection)... who can identify the medals?

Also does anyone have a full list of Raben's medals as worn in the later photos above?

Cheers

Chris

Hi Piekenier,

You've made some very good points there. I'd never noticed the lettering differences before. And thanks for the additional bayonet numberings. So it seems there were bayonets numbered in the 8,000s and 10,000s... that makes it look like all the numbers were used at least from 1,000 to 11,000. I can't understand why they would issue 10,000 bayonets to a force less than 2,000 strong by 1910?

Cheers

Chris

Any idea what numbers the KS stampings go up to?

This is an interesting question. I'm not really sure, but here's my thoughts on it based on the bayonets on this page from various private collectors-

http://s400910952.websitehome.co.uk/germancolonialuniforms/militaria/bayonets%20dswa.htm

The DSWA kS98 bayonets shown on the webpage are in order of their weapon numbers-

KS1516 W10 leather grip

KS1613 W06 leather grip

KS2183 W12 leather grip

KS2556 W12 leather grip

KS2698 W12 leather grip

KS2749 W12 leather grip

KS4892 W12 leather grip

KS4916 W12 leather grip

KS5278 W12 rubber grip

KS11067 W?? leather grip

KS85.34 W06 leather grip

As I understand it, the date was marked at the factory where it was made and the weapon number was marked by the local armourer in the colony at the time of issue.

Although this is only a small sample and not conclusive, I’d speculate then that these bayonets were all issued after 1910 (if the KS1613 is numbered after a W10 bayonet that seems reasonable). So none of these were in use during the Herero Rebellion when Schutztruppe numbers were over 10,000.

As Chris Boonzaier has said there may have been gaps in the sequence and the sequence probably did not start at 1. 1,000 is more likely. I have not seen any DSWA kS98 bayonets number 1-999.

The numbers from 2,000 up are a new W12 batch, I would speculate. The numbers might well have run sequencially from 2,000-5,000 or higher.

The KS5278 having unvulcanised rubber grips was issued in early 1914. Or at least it was re-gripped then. It may have seen earlier service with leather grips, but it looks too clean and shiny to have worn through one pair of grips.

I would speculate then that these were the last issued kS98, and that’s how high the numbers went, the early 5,000s. These are only the Erfurt manufactured bayonets though. There were also the Horster 1913 kS98 bayonets which do not seem to have been weapon numbered.

I think of the other two bayonets KS11067 and KS85.34 they must have been working to a different numbering system, something localised perhaps or maybe a system pre-dating the others. I don’t understand it but as KS85.34 is W06, it seems unlikely that it was issued three thousand numbers after a 1914 bayonet. Maybe the punctuation between the 85 and the 34 is significant in some way.

It also seems odd that if all the bayonets in between 5,000 and 11,000 exist, it’s odd we don’t see any numbered 6,000 or 9,000.

I don’t know all the answers here, but hopefully we can work some of it out between us….

Cheers

Chris

Thanks Chris!

Great photos Chris! Thanks for sharing them.

Cheers

Chris

I think it's Erfurt in 1899 (marked "W99")... though t'other Chris will know for sure!

Cheers

Chris

What model bayonet is it?Never seen one like this before from the colonies.

It's an S98, old style with a sawback. You're right they were not commonly used by the Schutztruppe. This one is a real rarity.

Cheers

Chris

The marking "2.F.R.1.105" are believed to represent 2.Feld-Regiment, 1. Kompagnie of the Schutztruppe of South West Africa, weapon number 105. Tthe Schutztruppe were only temporarily formed into regimental units during the Herero Rebellion. This is one of very few Schutztruppe bayonets seen today with unit markings.

Hope that helps,

Cheers

Chris (one of many Chris' here!)

Hi,

it it possible to date this one from the Photo?

Hi Chris,

Only very roughly, between Nov 1896 when this Kord Waffenrock was authorised and the First World War when it was still sometimes worn.

But those posed photos above and lots like them seem to have been taken in bulk when the Schutztruppe were being reinforced at the begining of the Herero Rebellion and most date from 1904-05.

Cheers

Chris

Great collection and so well displayed...

Cheers

Chris

I own the medals and doc's of a Walther Koehler (Kohler) that commanded a detachment in DOA, and returned to Germany in April 1906 with the Thetis.

Cheers Captain Albert

Can you show us a photo of the medals, please?

I uploaded a small article I wrote on the "British, German, and Italian Blockade of Venezuela 1902/03" here on this site. It is in the download area. Cheers Captain Albert

http://gmic.co.uk/in...lockade-190203/

Now, when I click that link an error message comes up. I'd be very interested to read more on the Venuzuelan blockade.

Cheers

Chris

Sorry, I put the link to my own site (which I'm glad you liked) but forgot to add the SMS Bussard link-

http://www.traditionsverband.de/download/pdf/bussard_halle.pdf

Cheers

Chris

Some great research you've done there. Here's an article in German about the SMS Bussard, another German ship invovled in the Maji Maji Rebellion in German East Africa.

Cheers

Chris

I consulted a specialist bayonet collector on this mystery and he said-

"Interesting marking that is one of those puzzles that does not fit the official regs Will have to look in a bit more detail but as you know F can be fusilier, fuhrpark, fuss, feldhaubitz, festungs or apparently unofficially just feld. Not foot artillery as they never got the S98 so my money tends towards Feld Regiment as the chap says. 1st and 2nd Feld Reg involved not just Ersatz Kompagnie so its the only thing that fits on first reaction. Nice one........"

So my foot artillery guess was wrong, as Chip spotted earlier, and he's agreeing with your idea Chris...

Cheers

Chris

That is a great shame. I've posted it on the AHF, I'll put it on my website later tonight. I'll also mail the collectors I know to keep an eye out for it.

Cheers

Chris

Good thinking, I reckon you're right Chip. But if it is from a Fusilier Regt the numbers don't add up. Unless there's a very faint "12" missing before the first "1" for Füsilier-Regt. Kaiser Franz Josef von Österreich, König von Ungarn (4.Württembergisches) Nr.122?

Cheers

Chris

More Alpenkorps headgear...

Peaked cap from the Leib Regt

Ski troops cap with unofficial badge?

Ski troops cap

Prototype helmets for the Ski Troops...

All from the Bavarian Army Museum.

Cheers

Chris

Here's one for the books then, a Pickelhaube with Edelweiss. No, I'd never seen one before either. It's at the Bavarian Army Museum, Ingolstadt.

Cheers

Chris

We wondered where he got his inferiority complex... :)

"Are you forgetting the "Feld Regiment" one on your site ? :-)"

Haha, yes indeed I am! What I should have said is that the vast majority of bayonets for the DSWA Schutztruppe at this time were kS98, which all had the sawback... there are always odd exceptions like that one.

"I was puzzling as to why the stamp was on the sheath, and not on the crossguard as well."

I think they were supposed to be on both. Some are crossguard only, some are sheath only, some have both, some have none. It seems that unit markings were done locally within units so variations occur.

Cheers

Chris

Thanks Kevin for brightening the photo. I took it without flash as per the museum's rules but yes it did need a bit.

Funnily enough Chris that was the opposite reaction of one young soldier. The Adolf Hitler came from Austria to Germany and joined the regiment indicated on the museum hat (16th Bavarian Reserve Infantry Regt). As you say its a wonder he didn't change his mind there and then...

Cheers

Chris

This kind of thing (from the Bavarian Army Museum, Ingoldstadt)?

Cheers

Chris

Great photos, Chris. What mystery did the second one solve?

Cheers

Chris

Great bayonet. As noted already, it appears to be an S98aAS for the Mauser 98 rifle. My guess would be the Foot Artillery, specifically 1. Batterie, Fußartillerie-Regt. von Hindersin (1. Pommersches) Nr.2. If it were Guard artillery I would expect to see a "G" in there, if it were Field Artillery I wouldn't expect it to be this bayonet type as this is specifically for the rifle and didn't field artillery have carbines? I might be wrong here. The original Mauser 98 carbines had no bayonet mounting, the later AZ carbine was usually issued with a shorter bayonet. This early date 1899 also rules out the AZ carbine.

Couple of small points on what's been said already, Merv said "they were mostly issued to Machine Gunners and the Pioneers"... I thought Pioneers usually used the heavier Pionier-Faschinenmesser bayonets, and Machine Gunners the short kS98 bayonet (after its introduction).

And "souvenirs from either South West Africa or, East Africa. The sawbacks were invariably part of an N.C.O.'s equipment ". All bayonets issued in DSWA after 1904/05 and those later issued in DOA were kS98 bayonets which all had the sawback.

Cheers

Chris