Chris Dale

Uniforms? More or less typical naval issue uniforms, and equipment.

I think key difference here is that the Matrosen Divisions wore yellow metallic insignia, buttons, cap tally scripts, arm chevrons and badges etc. Whereas the Werft Divisions wore similar white metallic insingia.

For example, a Werft Division cap-

..and Matrosen Artillery cap-

A highly recommended book on this topic and covering the organsiation of the Matrosen and Werft Divisions is"Die Mützenbänder der Deutschen Marine 1815 - 1918" by Bernd Wedeking and Marcus Bodeux.

Cheers

Chris

Amazing collection, thanks for sharing the photos and information!

Cheers

Chris

I know that this thread is some years old but maybe for interest...

Thanks for bringing it up again, Alex. I hadn't seen it before, fascinating and great medals...

Cheers

Chris

The award to Müller was one of a few exceptions, thats correct. He already owned the KO3 and was too young in career to get the RAO3X, so he received "the swords to - die Schwerter zum" KO3. But i am shure his swords were very different ....

Müller, Karl von 1891, 04.10. Pr. Centenarmedaille Unterleutnant zur See 1897, 03.22.S BLUECHER

Müller, Karl von 1891, 04.10. Pr. RAO 4. Kl. Kapitänleutnant 1906, 09.19. Schlachtflotte, Admiralstabsoffizier

Müller, Karl von 1891, 04.10. Russ. St.Annen-O. 3. Kl. Kapitänleutnant 1907, 09.17. KAISER WILHELM DER GROSSE, Artillerieoffizier

Müller, Karl von 1891, 04.10. Pr. RAO 4. Kl., Krone z. Korvettenkapitän 1909, 06.08. Hochseeflotte, Admiralstabsoffizier

Müller, Karl von 1891, 04.10. Sa.Kgr. Albrechts-O. Ritterkreuz 1. Kl. m. Krone Korvettenkapitän 1912, 06.13. Reichsmarineamt

Müller, Karl von 1891, 04.10. Pr. Kronen-O. 3. Kl. Korvettenkapitän 1913, 03.01. Reichsmarineamt

Müller, Karl von 1891, 04.10. Pr. Kronen-O. 3. Kl., Schwerter z. Korvettenkapitän 1913, 10.13. EMDEN, Kommandant

Müller, Karl von 1891, 04.10. Pr. Dienstauszeichnungskreuz XXV Jahre Korvettenkapitän 1913, 11.15.R EMDEN, Kommandant

Müller, Karl von 1891, 04.10. Chile, Verdienstorden 2. Kl. Fregattenkapitän 1914, 07.14. EMDEN, Kommandant

Müller, Karl von 1891, 04.10. Pr. Eisernes Kreuz 1914 I. Kl. Fregattenkapitän 1918, 02.14.R EMDEN, Kommandant, in Holland interniert

Müller, Karl von 1891, 04.10. Pr. Pour le Mérite Fregattenkapitän 1918, 03.19. EMDEN, Kommandant, in Holland interniert

Regards

Markus

I was just about to post a a question asking if anyone knew which medals Karl von Müller was awarded... then I saw my question had already been answered. You guys are too good!

Von Müller seems to have even more medals than those listed in this photo from http://www.exulanten.com/seadevil.html

I just wish the photo was a bit bigger/clearer...

Cheers

Chris

Great photos, Chris. Thanks for sharing them!

Cheers

Chris

When WWI did break out this gent was in his middle 30's, likely an NCO or a low ranking officer. Although no long service decoration. Others can opine on what the lack of a LS award could mean in this instance.

OK, Claudius I'll opine then (I've never used that as a verb before, thanks for the oportunity!). As we've seen its probably RAO, so he's an officer. The lack of LS award is because he's still saving up for his 25 year award?

Saschaw, thanks for the clarification on NC medals for China and DSWA. I did not know that difference before. It helps a lot!

Cheers

Chris

I was thinking that this bar might be from a German serving in New Guinea in 1914, as it clearly has a colonial connection and the museum has other items from New Guinea in their collection. Having seen the description on the AWM website of the service record of the Australian who donated the bar (mostly Sinai/Palestine with a little time in France at the end of the war) it would seem that is not the case. I hope you can find some more information on it when you're there, Jas... and thanks again for bringng this one up

Cheers

Chris

That's a great bar, Jas. I'm looking forward to any more you can find out about it in March...

Cheers

Chris

That is an exceptional grouping with an even better lineage. Thank you!!

I can only agree, great work Jase!

And there's more Imperial German medals at the AWM too-

http://www.awm.gov.a...d_subjects_text

I particularly like this one-

http://cas.awm.gov.au/item/REL34246

"DescriptionGerman ribbon bar containing in order from left to right - Iron Cross, Austrian-Hungarian Medal for Bravery with miniature medal (Tapferkeitsmedaille Third Class), Cross of Honour for the Great War 1914-1918 with miniature medal, Turkish War Medal 1915. Also one loose Cross of Honour ribbon for the Great War 1914-1918 and one loose Tapferkeitsmedaille red and white ribbon.SummaryAssociated with the First World War service of Otto Wilhelm Anton Rubitschung, Calvary Platoon 702 of the German Imperial Army. Rubitschung was wounded, and was one of 10 German officers and 348 German other ranks captured by 1 Light Horse Brigade at Abu Tellul, Palestine on 14 July 1918. Upon his capture an Australian officer, Major Archie Dick who served with the 3rd Light Horse Regiment, confiscated his cigarette case, field glasses, and case for his pistol, which fortuitously contained Rubitschung's pre-war address in Germany. Rubitschung was later interned at a prisoner of war camp in Cairo.

For his actions at Abu Tellul, Major Dick was recommended for, and awarded the Distinguished Service Order. After the war when released from Cairo, Rubitschung returned to Germany for a period of time to finish his medical training, before relocating his family to Palestine to practice as a medical doctor. During this time, Archie Dick managed to contact him and the two started a correspondence.

In 1941, during the Second World War, the family was transported from Palestine to Australia along with numerous other German families, to be interned at Tatura, German Camp 3, in Victoria. Dick, who ran a wheat farm near Port Augusta in South Australia, had re-enlisted for service in 1941 and was stationed at the Loveday Internment Camp in South Australia. A few months later Dick went to Tatura and was able to meet Rubitschung and his family when they arrived. There he intervened on behalf of the family, and they received improved accommodation.

The family remained at Tatura for the remainder of the war, with Rubitschung working as the doctor in charge of Compound C. After the war, the family were unable to return to either Germany or Palestine, and as such settled and eventually became naturalised in Australia. Unfortunately, Rubitschung was unable to practice medicine in Australia due to his undertaking his training in Germany. The government offered him the opportunity to work in Papua New Guinea for a period of time, which would in turn entitle him to practice in Australia. However not wanting to be separated from his family, Rubitschung declined the offer and instead found work as an orderly at Wentworth Hospital, where he also helped conduct post-mortems."

Cheers

Chris

Won this at an auction, waiting for the mail to arrive!

Congraulations that's a lovely little collection!

Cheers

Chris

I personally doubt he's Austrian. The Austrian shirts/vests had blue stripes and his insignia does not look like Austrian Insignia that I've seen before- http://www.kuk-kriegsmarine.at/spezabzeichen.htm

Other than that negative information. I don't know. All these countries naval uniforms of the late 19th early 20th centuries look so similar...

Cheers

Chris

Hello folks,

I've seen these same chaps in several photos, the Kaiser's footmen, always helping with coaches and horses. The insignia on their collars looks like rows of Prussian eagles. Here they are on the back of a carriage with Wilhelm II and Christian X of Denmark. Does anyone know any more about them, particularly what their proper German name is?

Cheers

Chris

Great thread, I love Thomas' mysterious khaki Wurttemberger...

Cheers

Chris

In the same album there's another book up now called "The Medal Collector: A Guide to Naval, Military, Air Force & Civil Awards" (1920)

http://picasaweb.google.com/Booker1942/1920TheMedalCollectorAGuideToNavalMilitaryAirForceCivilAwards?feat=content_notification#

Cheers

Chris

Thanks for that Saschaw, yes Mecklenburg Schwerin Cross looks right... I'm thinking the artist may not have known the last two either and has painted a bit of a blur, thinking nobody will ever notice or care.... how wrong he was!

Cheers

Chris

From "War Medals and Thier History" scanned by Sarge Booker at http://picasaweb.google.com/Booker1942/1915WarMedalsAndTheirHistory#

I love the way they date it 1904-06, when the clasp clearly says 1908 on it

Cheers

Chris

I thought this might be interesting to many of you. It's a scanned book from 1915 entitled "War Medals and Their History"

http://picasaweb.google.com/Booker1942/1915WarMedalsAndTheirHistory#

Thanks to Sarge Booker for scanning it and sharing the link.

Cheers

Chris

Danke Karsten, that's a lot clearer.

So on his bar it's-

EK2 with 25th Anniversary Clasp

Knight's cross of the Royal Hohenzollern House Order

Red Eagle Order third or fourth class with swords

Officer's Long Service Cross

1870 War Medal with numerous clasps

1866 War Medal

Another Medal China Campaign Possibly???

Another Cross?

Does that sound right? Can anyone guess the last two?

Cheers

Chris

Thanks guys, that's brilliant!

Cheers

Chris

Hello folks,

Here's a picture of Feld Marschall Alfred Graf von Waldersee, who commanded the German and International Armies during the latter stages of the Boxer Rebellion. He's wearing the khaki uniform which he wore out to China.

I'm curious as to what his medals are, and most particularly the gold or bronze badge below his 1870 EK1 on his left breast?

Any help would be appreciated!

Cheers

Chris

Hi Chris,

It might be the similar ribbons or it might be liberal journalism. After all a story in the British press about an African who's won a medal that nobody's heard of, isn't very interesting. Promote that medal to an Iron Cross and you've got a great story for the papers...

I think Maigumeri's story is amazing anyway. There weren't many German veterans at Queen Elizabeth II's coronation. I seem to remember reading that half of Prince Phillip's family were not invited to the royal wedding as they'd recently been on the "wrong side". Maigumeri has to have been the only African Schutztruppe veteran to take part in the coronation. Co-incidentally my Grandfather also took part, as a representative of the Canadian army.

Cheers

Chris

...and I now know where to come with questions about the Johanniter Order !

In addition to my previous post.... I did some more reading and found that only the Zahlmeister could wear an eagle on his headdress, not the Zahlmeister Aspirant, so that rules the paymasters out. I think we're down to Ober Buechsenmacher or Polizeitruppe Wachtmeister now...

Cheers

Chris

Hi Christer,

Thanks for that link, and keep up the good work! That's taught me a lot about the Honour Cross...

Cheers

Chris

I think this story has got mixed up somewhere along the way. According to "Askari und Fita-Fita" by Thomas Morlang, Maigumeri was awarded the Kriegsverdienstmedaille for African soldiers, not the Iron Cross. As far as I know the EK was not awarded to African troops. Does anyone recall an exception to this?

Isn't WNickel working on the rolls for the Kriegsverdienstmedaille? Could he confirm Maigumeri's award?

Cheers

Chris

Hello chaps,

I've only just come across this thread. Nice photo Heiko! Thanks for quoting my site, Mike! I think the info there is correct and that this chap could be a Polizeitruppe Wachtmeister. He could also be an official as Heiko first suggested.

I think either the Zahlmeister Aspirant or the Ober Buechsenmacher shoulder straps look like those in the photo.

Of course if we could see the colour of the straps it would make life easier. The Polizeitruppe shoulder straps should be red.

Equally both the Zahlmeister and Buechsenmacher were entitled to wear imperial eagles on their headress, as seen in the photo on the tropical helmet. The Polizeitruppe wore them too.

So it's just down to guessing colours now....

Cheers

Chris