Chris Dale

Guys, can somebody please confirm or correct my understanding regarding Bavarian army...

EM & NCO received medals for 9,12 and 15 years of service.

Officers received crosses for 24 and 40 years of service.

If a soldier was promoted to an officer after let's say 13 years of service was he allowed to wear a medal for 12 years? Or did he have to return any LS medal and wait another 11 years to get 24 years cross? Or one could become an officer only after 24 years of service?

Good question. Here's Rick Researches answer to a similar question (I hope he won't mind me quoting him from the Wehrmacht Awards Forum http://www.wehrmacht...ead.php?t=26723 ).

"The M1913 IX years service medal on the right was given only to enlisted ranks. When found in an officer's or official's group, such an award indicates service up from the ranks. Typically, Feuerwerks, Veterinary etc officers spent long years as NCOs before being commissioned, and in such cases they continued to wear their enlisted long service awards, but these were not made TO officers."

I've seen examples of Bavarian, Saxon, Wurttemberg and Hessian long service awards. Does anyone know which states did and which did not have their own awards?

Cheers

Chris

@ Chris: I don't have a beard... besides I found it opening the box for the first time! Maybe it was of the auctioneer...

I'm thinking it might be the original owner of the medal's beard? I'm trying to think of something more pleasant than ancient pubic hair....

Why don't you have a beard yourself? You should grow one!

I notice none of our little Emoticon sings have beards either....

Cheers

Chris

I forgot to say that I also found a pubic hair in box...

Claudio

Are you certain on that?

One morning I was curious to find pubic hair on my computer keyboard. No, it wasn't what you're all thinking ... but I was mystified. After some thought and chin rubbing, I realised I often rub my chin when in thought and odd hairs from my beard had fallen onto the keyboard! The moral of this story is that pubic and beardy hair can be quite similar....

Cheers

Chris

Nice to have the complete set of such a great bar... congratulations!

Cheers

Chris

Hello Cladius,

Stallmeister is Equerry in English. Wikipedia defines an equerry as "Historically, it was a senior attendant with responsibilities for the horses of a person of rank. In contemporary use, it is a personal attendant, usually upon a Sovereign, a member of a Royal Family, or a national representative." but specifically in Germany its meaning was still the historical version "In medieval and modern Germany, a stallmeister (literally, "stable master") or hofstallmeister ("court stable master") was one of the highest noble officials in a princely or royal court, responsible for the supervision of the manorial stables. The stable servants were subordinate to him. Out of this rank developed the office of marshal. In present parlance, stallmeister means Stable Master."

So its the Stable Master to the Prince of Ruess.

See http://de.wikipedia....ki/Stallmeister

and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equerry

Hope that helps,

Cheers

Chris

Thanks SPM for the aditional information. It's starting to all make sense now...

Naxos, Saschaw, that's brilliant. Thank you for clearing this little mystery up for me...

I love this forum, any mysteries I have on Imperial German medals, cleared up in less than 24 hours... thanks chaps!

Cheers

Chris

Thank you Deruelle and Saschaw for your very helpful answers so far.

officers could received the XX long service medal. Those officers served as Reserve officer.

So a Reserve Officer got his Long Service award after 20 years, but a regular army officer got his after 25 years. Is that correct?

The Prussian military long service awards for 9, 12 and 15 years of service were for EMs and NCOs only.

But was anyone still an EM after 9 years service? Surely any soldier would be an NCO by then? Or are there examples of EM ranks with the Long Service award?

Cheers

Chris

Hello Learned Gentlemen,

This might seem an obvious question to some of you but were Prussian Long Service Medals 1st-3rd Class only for NCOs?

Would any private soldiers still be serving after 9 years without promotion to NCO status?

Officers would only get the 25 Year Officer's Long Service Cross, wouldn't they?

If those last two are correct, then only NCOs would have the 1st-3rd Class Long Service awards surely? Or am I missing some key clues?

Any help would be appreciated...

Cheers

Chris

I've added a couple more interesting medal bars to that page- http://www.sacktrick.com/igu/germancolonialuniforms/militaria/medalbarscolonial.htm

I've also written a new page on the types of medals seen in the colonies and ob German overseas troops at- http://www.sacktrick.com/igu/germancolonialuniforms/militaria/medals.htm

Much of these updates have only been possible with the generous help of some of you Gentlemen at this forum. Thank you very much.

If anyone spots any mistakes or omissions on my website, or if anyone else has any medals and bars they'd like to see added please let me know.

All the best for a Happy New Year,

Cheers

Chris

That's a great daughter you've got there!

Cheers

Chris

Nice bars Matt! Thanks for letting us see them.

In my opinion the Zahringer Lion is probably the best looking Imperial German medal...

Happy New Year!

Chris

Ah yes, Luke, the rarely seen full-face Tropenhelm M1899

Merry Christmas,

Cheers

Chris

And here's a photo of Paul Lambert Werber taken in Ponape. From left to right the three German officers are Otto Erhard, Edgar Spiegel von und zu Peckelsheim and Paul Lambert Werber. This photo is the front cover of Morlang's aforementioned book.

The same photo can also be seen along with other Sokehs Rebellion pictures at http://www.micsem.org/photos/sokehs/thumbs.htm

Cheers

Chris

I knew that name was familiar... this is Paul Lambert Werber isn't it? He's mentioned in the excellent "Rebellion in der Suedsee" by Thomas Morlang about the Ponape Uprising. It seems Werber kept a journal and the author quotes him several times in his book.

Cheers

Chris

...a great bar and all the better for the history to go with it. Thanks for posting...

Cheers

Chris

That is the question........ how many clasps for the german southwest-africa medal have you ever seen on one medal / medal-bar?

How about 14? I believe that's the whole collection with the exceptions of the Kalahari 1907 and 1908 clasps, isn't it?

It's on display at the Imperial War Museum. Of course it seems unlikely it was issued to one soldier and is probably a compilation of people's medals. Nice to see them together though...

Cheers

Chris

DSWA non-combattant on a WWI combattant bar. It just might be all about what capacity the gent was acting in when in the kolonial forces. Someone who knows a lot more about the history of DSWA might be able to say if this was likely.

From what I've read the DSWA and China non-combatant medals were awarded to personell aiding the war effort back home. I love this quote from Paul C on this forum...

...the SWA NK or Steel. The NK version is given to people who aided the SWA campaign and did not actually fight. The aid could have been as simple as serving donuts to the soldier as they boarded to ships to SWA.

So someone like training staff, supply and depot people or ships crews might get it? Then be called up for combat service when it was "all hands on deck" for the First World War... does that sound plausible?

Cheers

Chris

Hi Jas-on-Bass,

I'm no expert on value but those loose prices he quoted sound a bit crazy to me!

Cheers

Chris

...an example for the last...

001803536 Abafi Pr Soldat Kamerun Schutztruppe Kamerun (Farbiger) J Pr PsKVM 2 01 07 1906

001800003 Abanda II. Pr Soldat Kamerun Polizeitruppe Kamerun (Farbiger) J Pr PsKVM 2 01 10 1916

001805101 Abanda II. Pr Soldat Kamerun Schutztruppe Kamerun (Farbiger) J Pr PsKVM 2 01 05 1903

001800004 Abanda III. Pr Gefreiter Kamerun Polizeitruppe Kamerun (Farbiger) J Pr PsKVM 2 01 10 1916

001803537 Abanda III. Pr Hornist Kamerun Schutztruppe Kamerun (Farbiger) J Pr PsKVM 2 01 07 1906

001800006 Abanda Pr Soldat Kamerun Polizeitruppe Kamerun (Farbiger) J Pr PsKVM 2 01 10 1916

001805102 Abang Pr Soldat Kamerun Schutztruppe Kamerun (Farbiger) J Pr PsKVM 2 01 11 1906

001805105 Abdalla Fadl Mustafa Pr Ombascha DOA Schutztruppe DOA (Farbiger) J Pr PsKVM 2 01 06 1900

001803538 Abdalla Faragalla Pr Schausch DOA Schutztruppe DOA (Farbiger) J Pr PsKVM 2 01 06 1907

001805106 Abdalla Hami? Pr Betschausch DOA Schutztruppe DOA(Farbiger) J Pr PsKVM 2 15 10 1906

001803539 Abdalla Hussen Pr Schausch DOA Schutztruppe DOA (Farbiger) J Pr PsKVM 2 01 07 1906

001803540 Abdalla Hu?ein Pr Askari DOA Schutztruppe DOA (Farbiger) J Pr PsKVM 2 01 06 1907

001805108 Abdalla Ibrahim Pr Sol DOA Schutztruppe DOA(Farbiger) J Pr PsKVM 2 15 10 1906

001803541 Abdalla Raschid Pr Ombascha DOA Schutztruppe DOA (Farbiger) J Pr PsKVM 2 01 07 1906

001805109 Abdalla Senab Pr Askari DOA Schutztruppe DOA (Farbiger) J Pr PsKVM 2 01 10 1897

001805110 Abdalla Ziada Pr Betschausch DOA Schutztruppe DOA(Farbiger) J Pr PsKVM 2 15 10 1906

001800011 Abdalla Pr Askari DOA Schutztruppe DOA (Farbiger) J Pr PsKVM 2 01 10 1916

001800012 Abdalla Pr Askari DOA Schutztruppe DOA (Farbiger) J Pr PsKVM 2 01 10 1916

001800013 Abdalla Pr Askari DOA Schutztruppe DOA (Farbiger) J Pr PsKVM 2 01 10 1916

001800014 Abdalla Pr Ombascha DOA Schutztruppe DOA (Farbiger) J Pr PsKVM 2 01 10 1916

001800015 Abdallah Achmed Pr Ombascha DOA Schutztruppe DOA (Farbiger) J Pr PsKVM 2 01 10 1916

001800017 Abdallah Diga Pr Schausch DOA Schutztruppe DOA (Farbiger) J Pr PsKVM 2 01 10 1916

001800018 Abdallah Faraji Pr Askari DOA Schutztruppe DOA (Farbiger) J Pr PsKVM 2 01 10 1916

001805112 Abdallah Mohamed Pr Ombascha DOA Schutztruppe DOA (Farbiger) J Pr PsKVM 2 15 02 1901

001800021 Abdallah Pr Askari DOA Schutztruppe DOA (Farbiger) J Pr PsKVM 2 01 10 1916

001805113 Abdallah Pr Soldat DOA Schutztruppe DOA (Farbiger) J Pr PsKVM 2 01 07 1893

001805114 Abdel Cher Achmed Pr Askari DOA Schutztruppe DOA (Farbiger) J Pr PsKVM 2 15 05 1896

001800022 Abdel Fatah Pr Ombascha DOA Schutztruppe DOA (Farbiger) J Pr PsKVM 2 01 10 1916

001800023 Abdi Ali Pr Askari DOA Schutztruppe DOA (Farbiger) J Pr PsKVM 2 01 10 1916

001800024 Abdrachman II. Pr Askari DOA Schutztruppe DOA (Farbiger) J Pr PsKVM 2 01 10 1916

001800025 Abdrachman Pr Ombascha DOA Schutztruppe DOA (Farbiger) J Pr PsKVM 2 01 10 1916

001800026 Abdrachman Pr Schausch DOA Schutztruppe DOA (Farbiger) J Pr PsKVM 2 01 10 1916

001800027 Abdrachmani Pr Askari DOA Schutztruppe DOA (Farbiger) J Pr PsKVM 2 01 10 1916

001805116 Abdu Farag Pr Askari DOA Schutztruppe DOA(Farbiger) J Pr PsKVM 2 15 10 1906

001800028 Abdudelai Pr Ombascha DOA Schutztruppe DOA (Farbiger) J Pr PsKVM 2 01 10 1916

Wow! That's truly amazing... I'd love to see this list when its finished! Note the sudden rush of KVM awarded in DOA after the blockade runner "Marie" brought a stack of medals with them in 1916...

Keep up the good work

Chris

Yes Beamte, I agree...

I'd say..... First World War service in non-combatant role (from EK2 n-c and War Aid Cross), officer rank (from Red Eagle), doctor (Red Cross Medal), served in Finland in 1918 possibly alongside Swedish volunteers (Finnish and Swedish medals). Does that sound right?

Cheers

Chris

Only war medals.

Thanks, that would explain most of the awards I'd seen being First World War era. I guess that also applied to colonial wars? Here's a photo of Paul von Lettow Vorbeck in 1904 not long before he served in the Herero War. So his ribbon must be for an award during the Boxer War. Does that sound right? And what award could it be?

The photo is from Bundesarchiv / Wiki Commons- http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-2007-0621-500,_Paul_Emil_von_Lettow-Vorbeck.jpg

Cheers

Chris

Thanks for that Saschaw. That explains why I've never seen a campaign or long service award worn there. Does anyone know what other Prussian awards could be worn there? As some photographs look like they've got an EK2 but they're pre-1914... I'm thinking they could be something like the KVM or Crown Order on the same ribbon as an EK2? Is that possible?

Great sale going on, Saschaw!!! I wsh I had a bit more money lying around right now, you've got bargains up there.

Cheers

Chris

I've often seen the EK2 worn as a ribbon in the second buttonhole and sometimes other medals worn that way. Could any medal be worn that way? Or were some allowed and not others?

Cheers

Chris

Isn't "Kriegmedaillen" plural?

Ah, yes good point!