Veteran

Hello everyone

Some time ago a set of Medjidj? with swords was shown here, and the response was absolutely wonderful. This is why I would like to submit this badge to the knowleageable scrutiny of connoisseurs of Turkish material.

This badge is gold and red enamel. Size 68x45mm, weight 22grs. No hallmark. It is attached to a full size neck ribbon, possibly early XIXth Century.

It could be of European manufacture.

What I have found about this order, crated by Selim IIIrd and awarded between 1799 and 1812, is scant. It appears to have gone first to British officers who fought the French during the Campaign in Egypt (Lord Nelson being the recipient of a first class with diamonds) ; and later to French instructors under General Sebastiani for their help against the Russians.

Four classes are mentioned to have existed. The French Imperial Almanach for 1855 mentions 7 holders of the Order, without any indication of classes.

Could this be a Second class badge ?. I really have nothing to go on except the pictures in Wahlen 1844.

Information about this order and badge will be gratefully received.

Regards

Veteran

This uniform could be some kind of ambulance service during WW2.

Never seen anything quite like this.

Regards

Veteran

Hello all

Since the question was put as to what uniform the Zouaves wore during WW1, here is a picture of my own father as a Sous/Lieutenant with the 3rd, in August 1915. As you can see, they wore the traditional French uniform (which might have been kaki and not light grey-blue) with the caracteristic red "chechia". It seems that they had exchanged the slouching variety as worn with the dress uniform shown on the first picture fot the higher "tirailleur" type.

The pup was not normally part of the uniform.

Regards

Veteran

Hello usaforce

Thank you very much for these very demonstrative pictures. This medal is absolutely identical to the one I showed, except of course that it is complete and has its ribbon.

I am very grateful

Best regards

Veteran

Hi,

I will fully support the suggestion that you see Hendrik's site. Beautiful material.

Greetings

Veteran

Hello Jason

The best (to my knowledge) book on the subjedt is written in French : BORNE, Charles Andr?. Distinctions honorifiques de la Belgique. Bruxelles 1985

It is one of the best books on Orders and Decorations ever published. Beautifully and profusely illustrated it is as near to exhaustive as can be. This book has certainly contributed greatly to my enjoyment in understanding and collecting Belgian material.

I hope this helps.

Best wishes

Veteran

Hello Paul

I looked it up in the catalogue, and there it is all right.

Thank you again for your welcome help. Regards

Paul

Paul

This officer might be the one mentionned by Google as one of the first explorers of Indochinese arch?ology, when he was a captain with the French Infanterie coloniale. His part in describing and protecting the ruins at Ankor would have been very significant.

It would certainly explain the rather unusual display of Annamese and Cambodian Orders as well as the Academic palms. The colonial medal with probably the INDOCHINE or TONKIN bar as well as the Tonkin campaign medal. The very last medal could be one of the Royal Cambodian medals such as Sisowath 1st or Sisowathmonivong.

E.E. Lunel de la Jonqui?re, chef de bataillon d'infanterie coloniale, appears as an Officier of the Legion d'honneur since June 9 1910 in the 1914 "Almanach National". If not unusual, this level to a commandant was a significant award. Probably the same officer.

As a commandant (major in command of a batallion) in 1914, he would probably have taken part in WW1.

Two de la Jonqui?re families are registered : Lunel de la Jonqui?re and Taffanel de la Jonqui?re. The latter has a very distinguished past and has surviving members (Bottin Mondain 1999).

I would not know about the first family which I would think to be this officer's.

This is as much as I can contribute. Regards

Veteran

Thanks Enzo, I will gladdly settle for your diagosis. Hopefully, a picture of a complete award will possibly pop up some day.

I am most grateful to all contributors.

Veteran

Hi Chris

This is a good looking TONKIN bar..... the 1900 CHINE 1901 bar really belongs to the China campaign medal, which is different.

Best regards

Veteran

Thank you all for this outstanding amount of excellent information.

This is a forum at its top level efficiency !

Greetings

Veteran

Wonderful information, thanks a lot GRA !

This piece looks more like silvered bronze than solid silver. No hallmarks. The date seems slightly off compared to the official re-foundation date mentioned by kimj.

Am I right to assume this is preferentially a ladies organisation ?

Gratefully

Veteran

Thank you very much for this first and important information.

GRA.

The pictures by on the Swedish Orders website mentioning this order show modern crosses, which differ from the one I am trying to investigate : the crosses on recent pictures have a crown between their arms.

Were the crowns added at a known date ? If so, it would help date this particular cross.

kimj.

The information about the nature of the modern Order is consistant with the story as it now appears. By "Fraternal Order" do you mean Masonic or rather like the Kiwanies or the Lions ?

I am most grateful.

Veteran

Hello everyone

This cross is 36 x 36 mm in bronze. The AV (or VA) monogram on the obverse center suggests some possible link with the Queen Christina's "Order of Amarante" established in 1653.

The piece looks old enough, but the date on the reverse may refer to some unrelated event or circumstance.

The slightest piece of information would be gratefully received.

Best regards

Veteran

Hi Chris

A very worthy achievement. I am glad you finished your project and shared it with us. Thank you.

I am very impressed with the group you have here : 8 awards... (5 years service ?). Took me about 50 years to gather that many ribbons on my chest...

All this is a pleasure. Congratulations.

Et vive la L?gion NdD !

Greetings

Veteran

Order of st. Anne 4th class "for Bravery" on the sword !!!

Great Item !

Can you make for me big pictures ?

Thank you !

Hello Igor

Thank you for your kind comment. Am I right to assume that it was given to Russian troups ? Not necessarily foreign ?

I don't quite understand what you mean by larger pictures. This is the largest this forum is prepared to accept.

I will be very interested to have your answers on the first question and suggestion for the second.

Veteran

I believe a number of these badges were also awarded to French NCOs & rankers. This particular one looks absolutly gorgeous and I would agree it might well be pre-1914. Probably extremely scarce.

I have one such badge to be mounted on the upper part of a sword's sheath. But I have doubts about the fact that it was restricted to foreign recipients. Would any one care to comment ?

Congratulations for this very nice medal

Veteran

An excellent choice indeed ! You will have a large range of bars and an infinite number of combinations. Some are very scarce, such as this DE L'ATLANTIQUE A LA MER ROUGE given to members of the French cross-Africa expedition which bumbed into the Anglo-Egyptians lead by Kitchiner at Fachoda.

If you persist with your plan, you will want the "bible" on the subject "La M?daille coloniale" by Jean HASS. It has been out of print for some years, but you might be able to get a second hand copy.

Best wishes

Veteran

A slight adjunct to Jeff's identifcation of the last French ribbon : it is indeed the Voluntary Service Medal ... for the bronze medal.

This decoration is similar to the British Efficiency Medal. It is awarded to members of Armed Forces Reserves after a minimum 10 years services, usually more since a yearly contingent is allowed.

The silver medal's ribbon has a white line along each edge and the "gold" has a typical French rosette on the silver grade ribbon

Regards

Veteran

Hi Chris

This man's story makes sense. Born in 1878, he would have been called up in 1898 for Military Service (but he may have volunteered one or two years ealier with parental permission). Volunteering was quite frequent with the Infanterie Coloniale. Since he was still serving in 1909, either he stayed on after his Military Service (3 years in those days) or re-enlisted with the Infanterie Coloniale.

In 1909 he was obviously an regular. Madagascar was a VERY UNHEALTHY part of the french empire, thousands of men died of various sicknesses during the Conquest of Madagascar at the turn of the Century.

I rather believe he received the Medaille militaire on the basis of his years of service ("tableau d'avancement - at least 15 years as a regular), which would have been his case. He then went on with the Infanterie coloniale during WW1; the Infanterie coloniale was heavily engaged at the end of the war in what was called the "Front d'Orient", helping the Roumanians and the Serbs against the Bulgarians. Hence the roumanian awards.

He obviously survived WW1 and went on with his carreer, becoming an "adjudant" or an "adjudant-chef". Since he had received his MM in 1915, by the time he could retire (about 1923/26) with 25 years + with the colours, having a good croix de guerre in addition to MM, he would have been eligible for the Legion of honor, a scarce award to a NCO. In other words an old warrior who had seen much service and risen all the way through the ranks as could, in those days, a man who could read and write, period.

A lovely bunch of papers, far scarcer than the medals he wore..... I would certainly be tempted to get period awards together to go with the papers, or at least his "chest".

Congratulations

Veteran

Hi Chris

Could well be a french "bidon". It would have been covered with horizon-blue or kaki cloth and suspended from a laniard.

I don't know about the trademark. Could have been a Army contractor.

Regards

Veteran

This looks very much like a "souvenir" thing to sow on something to wear.

The French tricolor on the upper left corner might help date it before Maroccan Independance was established, in the early 50's I believe

Sorry I cannot contribute more.

Regards

Veteran

Hello Gentlemen

Bison es quite right about the fact that up to the 1960s, both Grand Cross and Grand officers wore the same silver breast star.

To be quite precise about the distinction between these two ranks, one can add that the GC wore a large badge on a GC shoulder-r?bbon with the breast star on the left side, when the Grd Officer whore a simple Officer's badge with the breast star on the right side.

I peronnally am sorry the GC breast star was gilded. Looks too loud...

Regards

Veteran

Hello Paul

You are quite right to assume that these two medals relate to membership with the Medaille militaire holders' association. The difference between the signifcance of a bronze medal vs silver medal is something I don't kown. It might relate to duration of membership, since the two you have are obviously named to the same M?daille militaire holder.

The Medaille militaire is quite frequent, both in war-time and peace-time. In the first instance, it can be a true callantry award, in peacetime, it is the French equivalent to a Meritorious Service Medal. It is restricted to Warrant officers, NCO and enlisted personnel.

The exception being its award as the supreme Military Honor, to a general officer who must previously have received the Grand Cross of the Legion d'honneur and have been in victorious command of an Army or a Fleet.

All these people are eligible to become members of this Association.

The named table medals could well have been made available, close to or at cost, to the members who wished to buy them. I don't really think they reflect special services to the Association, but they might. Hopefully some other member of this forum might be able to clear this point.

Their stricking is absolutely tops, usually performed by the Pais Mint who also have a commercial activity when requested to work for legitimate private groups.

A very nice pair. You are quite right to observe that they are not particularly expensive on eBay, where I have sold one quite some time ago.

Regards

Veteran

Hello there Gentlemen

A very pleasant military badge has just appeared in DNW's latest (March 19/20) auction sale catalogue - n?514 - in London. It seems to be one of the early gold crosses.

Thought you might like to know about it if you have not received it. Estimate is ? 2000/2500. It will be interesting to see how far it goes.

Regards

Veteran