Veteran

All,

I agree with Veteran that the lack of US awards is a key point. This tunic belonged to a man that DID NOT serve with US forces during any of the periods that WWI campaign or gallantry medals would have been awarded. This tunic seems to belong to a man that came back and, when needed after the war, was commissioned in the US forces based on his WWI experience and served in the Army. He probably was not an officer in the French Air Forces in WWI as Veteran pointed out.

Cheers,

Tod

Tod,

I have to differ slightly with your comment. The three French awards on that tunic point to an OFFICER in the French forces. Had he been an NCO or a ranker, he would have received the Medaille militaire and the Croix de guerre with the same palm, as well as the croix de combattant (third on row).

He was not necessarily an American citizen when he was decorated, and may have emigrated to the US, become a citizen and be commissioned in the US Army Air Force as such.

What do you think? His papers would certainly be interesting to read.

Cheers

Paul

Hello Chris

A very unusual amount of citations to any infantryman. Not only was it necessary for you to be lucky and plucky, but you also had to keep the same captain long anough for him to get a chance to single you out when "medal-time" came after the battle..... and captains were frequent casualties.

The fact that he was a messenger may account for the number of citations, since he would have been employed close to head-quaters, where his repeated acts of bravery could be observed an appreciated by the officers who write-up citations

His service-papers will no doubt tell a good part of the story. Certainly a good piece. Congratulations

Veteran

Hello Roeland

I hope you are not too disappointed with your failure to get this uniform. From what you say, I would think the other bidder might have brought you sky-high to get it (could be this person was descended from a naval officer of that time and rank and would have paid anything to get il... I have done it myself for a very special sword my father used to own)

Best regards

Veteran

Hello Roeland

I think Djedj is absolutely right.

Nothing on that uniform points toward ANY KIND of colonial appointment. It looks like a straightforward naval officer's uniform, probably full dress.

Shoulder boards should obviously complete it, as indicated by the straps on the shoulders.

If you contemplate buying this fine piece of naval wear, you should possibly get a clear explaination from the seller about the "colonial" part of his claim.

Incidentally, France only had 2 Empires, but many more Republics (this is the 5th). Is this uniform supposed to be 2nd Empire (1852-1870) or 3rd Republic (1875-1940)?

Cheers

Veteran

Hello Love-4History

This group is interesting, and Hendrik has made a few points I totally agree with : the photo and the medals don't quite go together. The Military Medal and Croix de Guerre shown on the portrait are absent in the group. They would be the star awards of this display if all medals belonged to the same sailor.

The Serbian Commemoratvie medal could be OK : in 1931, French soldiers and sailors who had helped the Serbian Army escape through Albania to the Adriatic islands were allowed by the French government to accept the offer the Yougoslav government extended. A diploma was also given.

The same happened when Italy gave their commemorative medal to soldiers and sailors who had come to strengthen the Italian troups and Navy in their struggle against the Austrians in 1915 and later (acceptance was allowed for Frenchmen by special decree of the President of the Republic in 1924).

If this man was on board a ship of the French Adriatic Fleet, both medals would make sense. The Dardanelle and Levant medals also suggest that he was on board a ship of the Mediterranean Fleet.

The Colonial medal, if extremely light, might be an "ersatz" metal manufacture of later date (in the 1940s). All WW1 period, before and between tht two wars were silver, sometimes as Hendrik indicates, silvered metal. It lools like a particular make dating 1942-48). It does not seem to belong.

An interesting part of the photograph is the band around the sailor's bonnet : FUSILIERS MARINS; they are the equivalent oF the Marines on board ships in the French Navy. But contrary to the British R.M. they are part of the ship's company, not a distinct outfit. They are sailors who are trained to also fight as infantrymen. During both wars full units of Fusiliers-Maris were formed. During WW1 they formed a Brigade, similar to Drake and other Battalions of the Royal Navy. During WW2, the were an armoured regiment within the 2nd French Armoured Division (Leclerc's Division).

An unusual reunion of awards and memorabilia. Couls probably be argued much further. I am glad you enjoy it.

Regards

Veteran

Hello RDVR

Jeff is quite right. It is a very un-official non-order.

They have an adress in the 'phone book and will answer your questions. If you send a CV, they will decide which of their "ranks" would be open to you. I believe there is an "entrance-fee".

Some people like to have them, and I have even seen them worn.

Simple way of making lots of people happy.

Cheers

Veteran

Mark

You certainly have brought the final touch to making this story recognisable. The Frencn Embassador would certainly never have moved if the story had not been thouroughly verified.

This is a lead for you : get in touch wiht the French Military attach? at the French Embassy in New-Zeeland asking for his help.

If he feels like it, he can get official confirmation for most of the info you need, and if Lt-Col Waddell was born over 120 years ago, he might even get copies of his military files for you. He might also be able to move the Foreign Legion archivists in Aubagne.

Please keep us posted with your progress.

All the best

Veteran

Hello Mark

This settles it. The memorial to the Lieut-Colonel is the final touch and a wonderful witness.

I hope you receive further info from Aubagne which you will please share with us. I agree with Chris that this is an untold story which deserves to be documented.

Very best regards

Veteran

Hello Mark

This is what I haven found for you. Strangely, it was a Polish reference on Google which confirmed that the Commandant James WADDELL, a New-Zeelander, served indeed during WW1 with the Foreign Legion. The same source states that he became a Lieutenant-Colonel.

Considering this, I suggest you write to : Service historique de la L?gion etrangere / 1er Regiment etranger / Quartier Vienot BP 38 / 13998 MARSEILLE ARMEES / FRANCE.

I am not sure they actually HAVE TO, but I suspect they might furnish you with a biography of this officer or at least some insight of his carreer with the Legion.

I also found this adress : Amicale des Anciens de la Legion etrangere d'Australie / 2235 5/7 Crawford Road / WYNNUM WEST Q. 4178 / AUSTRALIA

President : Mr Peter WADDELL.

I sincerely hope you find more about this officer and I apologize if I sounded dubiuous with my first message. Please keep us posted on this forum with the next developments.

Wishing you much luck with your enquiries, with best regards

Veteran

Mark

A few minutes later. ...

I went onto GOOGLE and indeed, I found that a "commandant" (Major) WADDELL was in command of the 2nd Battalion of the Regiment de Marche de la Legion etrangere (R.M.L.E.) during the Cbampagne attack in April 1917. This was found on : No mention was made that he was a New-Zealander.

I have found no more yet. Would this click with the info you have ?

Incidentally, the RMLE was also my Regiment. I served there as a legionnaire in 1944-45; it had been reformed in 1943 and was the armoured infantery of the 5th Armoured Division (1st French Army).

Best regards

Veteran

Mark

You seem to know quite a bit about this Lt.Col WADDELL, since you write he was a confirmed officer in the Foreign Legion. Would your information be sufficient to be more precise as to the period when he served with us ? To be quite frank, I would love to know what else is confirmed about him.

Researching French officers is possible with the Service Historique de l'Armee de Terre (SHAT) / Chateau de Vincennes / F94000 Vincennes / France. Officer's records are made available 120 years after their year of birth by the "Service des Archives de l'Arm?e de Terre", same address. But this would probably only be possible if he was or became a French citizen and served as such.

The Foreign Legion is totally restricive about the identity and carreers of rank and files members of the Corps. It is a fast rule. A legionnaire's identity and life are his own business, and no one else's.

If you have more information to spare, I might be able to enquire. But just a name would be too little. At least a period of services would be necessary. How did you get to know about him ?

Just say if you feel I can be of help.

Best regards

Veteran

Hello Mark

I agree with Mark. No Foreign Legion colonel from down under recorded to date. Sounds like an unlikely carreer. Very, very few non French colonels (the only two I recall were Martinez - the Crimea & Magenta (- and Amilakvary - Bir-Hackeim, Egypt).

The mention of a DSO would rather indicate some kind of command with the British. Other units have been called Legions besides the French and Spanish varieties (Arab Legioin, Glubb Pacha and all those..)

The next part of the story will be interesting to hear.

Cheers

Veteran

Hello Roeland

I fully agree with the comments already made.

Just a few words about the rank of "caporal-chef"; he is still a ranker, and as such he would wear the white k?pi, with the distinction of a gold "chin strap" instead of the black worn by private, pfc and corporal. The sleeve-badge also has a gold grenade, similar to the badge worn by NCOs and officers.

It is not a generally registerded fact that NCOs and officers DO NOT WEAR A WHITE KEPI, but the regular Infantery black with red top and gold piping. The Cavalry Regiment wears distinctive silver on all badges and rank stripes that are gold in the other Regiments (Infantry, Parachute, Engineers).

A very interesting addition to your collection, I am sure.

All the best

Veteran

Thank you both, Rick and Paul, for the very useful information you have given

The medal is, of course, Czarine Catherine, and not Elisabeth. I must have been cross-eyed when I looked at the medal. So it is therefore later than I staded, truly the second half of the XVIIIthe Century. I wonder how official this "Russian Society for a Liberal Economy" could have been in those days?

It had been sitting in a drawer for 35 years, quite forgotten. I am delighted to know what it is. This forum brings the answers to so many questions.... I will try and track a copy of the Smirnov as suggested by Paul. Thank you again

Veteran

Hello everyone,

This large and heavy (66mm 90grs) silver medal shows a plowman in the background and an allegory of trade (?) extending a crown. The caption starts with "ZA" but that is where my Russian stops.

The obverse is the same as the "personnal award medal of the Ataman of the Zaporozhue Cossaks" shown in the booklet "Russian and Soviet Award Medals" published in 1977 by the then Order of Lenin State History Museum.

I could find nothing about this particular medal.

My questions are : what kind of an award might this be,

when was it given, (1709-1761) first half of the XVIIIth Century?

who would have received it?

Was the medal continued by others in the following reigns?

Is it collected? If so, what could it possibly be worth?

Every bit of information will be gratefully received. Thank you

Veteran

Thank you, 922F, for this interesting message.

Coming back to this very special group, I still wonder if it was made up. A lot of it makes sense. This man could well have served for quite some time in Marocco between wars and the Tunisian order come with his participation in Tunisian campaign in 1942.

Now who he may have been is an other stroy again. But I have personnally lived through those days and I do know some extraordinary things happened to unusual people.

Best regards

Veteran

Hello Roeland

I would not like to sound discourageing, but the answers to your two simple questions would certainly take volumes.

The Legion of Honor has been the premier order of France for a little over 200 years, and it has recognised outstanding services from all walks of national life, civilian as much as military. Several hundreds of thousands have been awarded, possibly over a million; not counting the many awards to foreigners.

Furthermore, the badges have changed with every new regime. The XIXth century saw 2 Republics, 2 different kinds of Kingdoms and 2 Empire. The XXth Century added 2 more Republics. The type of insignia have also varied during all this time.

Despite the huge numbers of awards, bringing together a full collection of all types in all grades is a feat very few collectors ever managed to achieve. And that is why so many people collect them. You can pick up a good Chevalier of the 3rd Republic for 30 Euro and and many Commanders' badges older than 1870 will run in thousands. For the sake of simplicity, I will skipp the earlier breast stars and Grand Cross badges.

I am fully aware of the fact that I am not answering your questions. Just trying to explain why. Unfortunately, I don't know of a really good modern book in English on the subject. But a number of good recent books in French have been published, due to the celebrations of the Second Centannary of the Order. I would suggest that you try to buy one with good illustrations. But those will not mention numbers of awards.

Best regards

Veteran

Thank you very much for this (rather sad) story, which you have told with moderation and understanding.

A very old member of OMSA myself (n?10..) , I rushed to my book-shelf and sure enough found the June1975 issue of the Journal; there was the story of this person's life.. up to his "promotion" to the rank if general in the French Army Reserve, as introduced by the then Editor Frank von Allendorfer.

He must have been a master impersonnator. Apart from that, the paper on French Marshals was quite good, as you say.

I had completely missed him. Too bad we never met, I would have loved to discuss WW2 Foreign Legion with him, since he claimed he had belonged !

Best regards

Veteran

Hello 922F

Please tell us about the "General" Frank Denis cohort !

Best regards

Veteran

Hello Thierry

The new pictures are most inspiring. But the clasps are just too difficult to read on them. Please list the clasps of the Medaille coloniale and the Comm?morative 1939-45.

The clasp on the WW1 Commemorative is for a wound, not for an engag? volontaire. So my previous story falls through. The clasps to the Coloniale might help. Anyway, he may not have been all that young in WW1, but he certainly served on many fronts, including the Dardanelles (Gallipoli). If he was an aviator, he might have started of in the Navy or in the Army.

More to interpret as the clasps come rolling in. A bient?t

Veteran

This very unusual group tells a number of things.

This man may have volunteered during WWI (Commemorative 1914-18 woth ENGAGE bar) before or during 1916 (Verdun medal): he therefore was less than 20 years of age, or he would have been called up. He went in as an enlisted man or as an "aspirant".

His WW1 Croix de guerre is unusually heavily loaded. It certainly suggests a flyboy. The number of palms would normally add up to a Medaille Militaire somewhere along, provided he had not yet been commissionned. He might even have become a Chevalier of the Legion of honor (Guynement rose through the ranks to become a Captain and an officer of the Legion of honor in only a few years).

Some of the foreign awards would also fit into an aviator's group : Belgium Crown Order and Croix de guerre, as proper for an NCO to be awarded. The Italian Croce goes the same way; arial support was flown wherever Allies might need help. The Polish cross is a slightly more difficult to lodge, because of the Italian campaign in 1943-44, when the French Expeditionnary Corps fought along with the Polish Corps of Gal Anders.

Then Saint-Cyr after the war, promotion and very active service during the Riff war in Marocco. A number of "intermediate awards" to be added (Black Star of Benin, and the other one). M?daille coloniale + Ouissam Alaouite.

When WW2 comes in, he is about 42 years of age, probably still going strong. The WW2 Commemorative medal bars should be helpful here, as suggested by Hendrik. Possibly taken a prisonner of war and escaped (Escapee medal). Made himself useful with the Resistance in France or North Africa (Resistance medal); was in North Africa in 1943 or early 44 (possibly escaped frem occupied France - Escapee medal). Served in Tunisia either then or between wars (Nitchan Iftikar, subaltern officer's rank in the order).

I would think the US Legion of Merit might have something to do with work at Head-Quaters as a liaison officer, possibly during the campaign in Italy?

One can certainly imagine a variety of carreers from sucb a group. I would rule out he Medaille Militaire to a General Officer which always was awarded as a supreme distinction, the Grand Cross of the Legion of honor having been given prior to that. There would, therefore, not be an officer's badge. But he could have been a Grand Officer, if the breast star of the Legion d'honneur was lost or separated from the group. The whole group would be one to a Lt.Col. or a Colonel. If a General, considering his numerous MIDs, he would have been a Commander .. if he was not a Grand Officer as suggested above.

But all this is pure fantasy, we are telling the storu of Captain Hornblower over again. Whoever he was, he must have been quite a warrior !

Let's see what comes up next. It might be that the group is researcheable, after all. Some detective work !!

Regards

Veteran

Hello all

I am trying to add as much information as I can about the U.S.Army Air Force airial gunner's badge which, according to Wipikedia, was authorised during WW2 for the gunners of the large bombers of WW2 - B17 and the following.

It would have been first issued in 1942 and dicontinued in 1947. Which is a short period of time. How many could have been used ? 10.000? More ? or less ?

Pilot wings seem to have been well documented. Is there a good source of information on the 'net which could be usefully looked up for the gunner'badge?

Would anyone care to share information about this one? Every bit of further information will be gratefully received. Thank you

Regards

Veteran

Hello Roeland,

The answer is yes. I served as a legionnaire 2nd class (private) with 10 Cie / IIIrd Batallion / Regiment de Marche de la Legion Etrang?re (R.M.L.E.) / 5th Armoured Division / 1rst Army (French).

Liberation of Belfort (Nov. 1944) - Upper Alsace Liberation of Thann (Dec. 1944) - Defense of Strassburg (Jan. 1945) - Colmar gap (Jan./Feb. 1945) - Siegfried Line (March 1945) - Black Forest (April 1945) - Capture of Stuttgart (April 1945) - Austrian border Bregenz (April-May 1945).

This is, I suppose, one of the reasons I reacted to PK's post. We have met since and made great contact.

Thank you for your interest.

Best regards

Paul

Just called them on the 'phone.

Latest news : the CVM is 17 Euro and each ribbon device (star or palm) is 2.50 Euro. A regulation cross complete would cost around ?13 or $25.

If you want to order medals & decorations in current use : http://boutique.monnaiedeparis fr You will naturally have to add postage, cost of exchange etc..

You will have to state exactly what you wish, they are not equiped to deal with inquiries, except in french : tel.: 00 33 1 40 46 58 96

They will send, upon request, a list of available orders and decorations with a price-list. This is an open situation, regulated by french law. You can buy most (except a very small number) orders and decorations from the Mint and legitimate trade.

WARNING :

IF YOU WEAR THEM IN PUBLIC WITHOUT BEING INTITLED, YOU ARE HEAVILY FINED - IF YOU DO IT AGAN YOU GO TO JAIL.

SIMPLE AND STRAIGHTFORWARD !

I hope this proves usefull

Best regards

Veteran

Hendrik is right. This is the current Croix de la Valeur militaire (CVM), created during the Algerian war in the 1950s and continued since.

This cross is worn when a mention in dispaches (citation) has been won. Its ribbon should ALWAYS carry an device (star or palm according to the Military Command who awarded the MID).

It can be bought from the French Mint without the devices, these being added according to the individual requirement. Cost is about 15Euro (?11).

Men in the Foreign Legion, as members of any other unit liable to go into combat, have received this award when it was earned. CVMs are still being awarded in Afganistan and elsewhere. No one can tell if a CVM was awarded to a member of the Foreign Legion without its citation.

Best regards

Veteran