Veteran

Hello Bernhard

i fully agree with your remark about the links existing to-day between the nations which fought out the Second Worl War.

You might like to know that for many years now, surviving German, American, French and Austrian veterans have been invited to attend a joint ceremony by the people of the village of Jebsheim. After shooting at one another, we got along well in peace time, with the mutual respect warriors have for their opponents.

I was reporting events which occured 68 years ago. Things have changed to the better. But the fortitude of those American soldiers is still there for us to remember.

With my very best personnal regards

Veteran.

Thanks Chris, very nice reading.

In return, I just would like to tell younger generations about the U.S. G.I.s from the U.S. 3rd Infantry Division who were fighting with us during the Colmar battle January 1945, in a small Alsatian village called Jebsheim.

The French 5th Armoured Division was the spearhead attacking force, we had the tanks and the G.I.s had their feet in the snow by - 25° Celsius, for days and nights on end.

The Germans, who were the most experience warriors in the World at the time, were fignting to keep Alsace a German country. We were there to get them out because we felt it was our country. The G.I.s were there just because they were fighting a war. And they were superb warriors. We could never have achieived what we did without them;

The battle of Jebsheim cost the American 300 killed, the French 350 and the Germans close to 1.000. in less than 6 days combat. The battle of the Colmar Pocket was won at this terrible cost.

I am happy to have this opportunity to salute those American soldiers in the same friendly way this article gives credit to the French.

Best regards

Veteran

Hello Paul

Following the very constructive information given by Cussonneau, I would translate the naming on your medal as follows :

6357 (regimental number matricule in French) PARIS (surname) au (with the, a member of) 50 (50e (fiftieth) regiment d'infanterie de ligne) 2 (2e compagnie) Gr (grenadier which would mean he was a "grenadier", a veteran elite soldier in that regiment) or ( a member of the 2e Compagnie de grenadiers, an elite company in the regiment if it existed).

Your medal was probably owned by Grenadier Paris, matricule 6357, de la 2e compagnie du 50e Regiment d'infanterie de ligne.

Naming on those Crimean medals by the French was mostly an individual initiative.

As Cussonneau has shown with the medals know to the 2nd Regiment de Grenadiers de la Garde Impériale, their G and most often GR is always immediately after the number of the regiment, which makes sense. This I can confirm from other medals to both the 1st and 3rd Regiments de Grenadiers de la Garde Imperiale. In most cases Garde Imperiale is mentioned.

The 50th Regiment of infantery of the line was present in Crimea.

Privates in those regiments were known eithers as "grenadiers" or "voltigeurs" or "sapeurs" according to their employ.

I hope this makes sense to you. All these named Crimean medals are interesting.

Best regards

Veteran

Hi

This presentation case dates between 1901 and 1917 when this was the full name of the Paris jewellers firm now known as Arthus-Bertrand & Cie. It may well have been used to house a Legion of honor badge, either a chevalier or an officer. Quite possibly a Great War award.

The firm is still one of the important manufacturers of orders and decorations in France, possibly the best private firm., Their finest products are beautifully finished (and very expensive) badges.

I hope this helps

Veteran

Hello tjnier

To be honest, this man never was a legionnaire. He was a "Turco" which was the affectionate nickname given to the Tirailleurs. The medals he wears suggest he served in the Italian campaign against Austria, in the Franco-Prussian war 1870-71, as well as in Tunisia and other french colonies. He was a non-com. (Medaille militaire) and had a distinguished carreer, being a chevalier in the Legion of honor, a scarce award to non-coms.

The colonial medal he also wears shows that he was serving later than 1892;

His beard was probably allowed in his regiment. The Foreign Legion "sapeurs" who also wear a beard are an exception to-day. In the late 1800's it was worn by a large proportion of the male popullation.

The flaming grenade you spotted (I had missed it) probably means he belonged to the company of "grenadiers" of his regiment. They were considered to be the best men in an infantry unit.

I hope I am not abrupt about this. In fact, your man is far more interesting than would have been a contemporary legionnaire. It's a marvellous picture.

Congratulations

Vereran

Hello tjnier

The hunting horn (cor de chasse) worn on the sleeve was rather for marksmanship (prix de tir). It also was the badge worn by the Chasseurs à pied and Chasseurs alpins, but it was then worn on the collar.

The uniform with its very short waist coat and the turbaln looks more like a tirailleur, the belt being a length of woollen fabric, probably red in this case (a blue woollen belt is still part of the Foreign Legion parade uniform); what made you think of the Foreign Legion in this case ?

The three stipes on the upper part of the sleeves look more like re-enlistment chevrons (possibly 20 years with the Forces). His rank is hard to establish since it is the lower chevron which gives it away, and it looks incomplete.

I'm not much of an uniformologist, but I feel reasonnably sure about the facts I just mentionned.

Best regards

Veteran

Hello Linas

I don't quite see what makes you think this could be a French award. Obviously the legend is in french, but the design is stricklngly similar to the Belgian order you mention.

The sure thing is... that it is not an official french award of any kind. Private initiative is plentiful and very imaginative.

Il is important to medal collectors to see such productions and discuss them. They are so very much like the real thing (which of course they closely mimic) that they can induce confusion. And they can, of course, be a collection in their own right.

Thank you for taking the trouble to show this picture and start the discussion. Let's hope someone will be able to put a name on it and explain what it is.

All the best

Veteran

• Thank you very much Antonio. If I understand what you mean, this badge would be 1917-1931 pre-republican period. With a crown differently shaped as compared to the one on the picture you suggestd I see.
• It certainly is a credit to the fine crafmanship of Spanish jewellers !

I am very grateful

Paul

Hello Antonio

May I pick your brain about this gold first class badge of the Spanish Red Cross ?

The shape of its crown looks different from those shown on the very good illustrations you refered us to.. What period do you think it might be ? Before Alfonso XIII ?. Or later ?

The red cross is made of five red stones. The reverse is plain, no mention of the maker. The badge is very attractive.

Every bit of information will be gratefully received. Thank you.

Paul

• Hello Claudius

Paul Wood is (as usual) quite right about this medal refering to Marshall Mac-Mahon who was to be elected the first President of the IIIrd Republic in May 1873. It is difficult to date it.

Such cheaply made "medals" were very popular in France during the XIXth Century when they were freely sold and bought as souvenirs or as a token of personnal admiration for an important person. They, naturally, had nothing to do with the military or awards of any kind.

The reason why it would have come up with other items belonging to a German sailor is open to debate .... or straighforward guesswork, I am afraid.

Chances that you would have come across other examples are slim. But they do occasionnally turn up in batches or as parts of organised collections of political propaganda material.

Best regards

Veteran

Don't be upset by the lack of answer to your mail. The question, as you put it, would call for quite some comment....

If you read French, I would suggest SOUYRIS-ROLLAND's book "Guide des ordres et décorations de la résistance et de la liberation. 2e guerre mondiale".. Published in 1985, it shows up occasionally on the 'net.

Best regards

Veteran

I would not know exactly what nationality this uniform could be, It could be Belgian or Greek, But most likely; NOT FRENDH;

Let's hope we get the exact answer....

Best regards

Veteran

Hi Iver

I hope my answer to your query was received and satisfactory. Should you need further information, just say so.

Regards

Veteran

Thank you very much Chris. I had just missed the right button and I feel much better anwering on the post

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_03_2013/post-2990-0-76916900-1362600212.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_03_2013/post-2990-0-98289300-1362600110.jpg

This is a silver medal with the appropriate ribbon.

Known in France as "Medaille d'honneur du Ministere des Affaires etrangères" it has been awarded both for services to France by non-french persons and by the French President on the occasions of State visits. In this case it is also known as "Medaille d'honneur du President de la Republique" and the reverse usually bears the year of the visit, such as yours or the one I am showing.

Four levels of the medal have been used : bronze, silver, silver-gilt ("vermeil") and gold (in gold).

.

Il has been awarded since the 1860s probably, certainly since 1880; A military branch was created in 1917 to be given to military personnels, particularly to Allied troups who saved lives of French citizens. Ir is also awarded to military recipients during State visits.

Not a rare award but it does not turn up all that often.

I hope this helps.

Best regards

Veteran

To be honest, I would rather be told how to add the picture to this post. It would benefit a larger number of members as well as it would inform you. And I would gain a wee bit of extra know-how for myself that I evidently need !;

Nothing personnal about this, of course.

They are quite frequently found in boxes of odds-and-ends at rumage sales or on flea-markets. If you specifically want them, then they are harder to find as usual.

You can get them for a few pennies

This is interesting. A 27mm medal with a date could well be one of the so-called President of the Republic Medal of honor wich would have lost its ring.ly

I unfortunately don't know how to add a picture of this on an answer.

These souvenir medals were sold to who wanted them as a memento of a significant event. They were not meant to be worn on a ribbon. They also were considered to be useful political propaganda material

Collectors who specialise in one particular period of french history like to have them. But they don't properly belong to a collection of awards.

I hope this doesn't sound off-handed. Best regards

This is a very widely used pattern. It could be practically anything, official or not. The width of this particular one might be a lead 27mm ? 33mm ? 40mm ? more ?

A hallmark is probably to be found on the side with a cornocupea + BRONZE or ARGENT (Paris Mint).

This being said, it is certainly french. DUPUIS's signature should appear somewhere on the obverse

I was very interested to learn about this gentleman. From what I understand it was high time I did. Thank you Madame la Ministre.

Does his support to vodka manufacturing have anything to do with this ? If he helps save jobs, it might be a good enough reason to get a medal, non ?;

Sans commentaire.

Veteran

TacHel is quite right. "PONTS ET CHAUSSEES" have been since the early XIXth Century the part of the French Civil Service in charge of roads and bridges.

They are responsable for the planning, building and maintenance of all State owned roads and bridges and for the survey of all other roads, tunnel, bridges in local administration and private hands which are open to the public.

A tighly knit corps of engineers, carefully trained in high level schools, are in charge. A rather exclusive category of Civil Servants in fact.

This button, with the crowned empirial eagle, probably dates back to the 1852-1870 Second Empire (Napoleon III). All Civil Services had their distinctive uniforms in those days, with gilt buttons such as the one you have found.

Regards

Marcus

What exactly do you mean by "colonial". Are you refering to what the French call "la coloniale" which are the Infanterie coloniale and Artillery coloniales regiments, in fact Frenchmen.

Or are you thinking of "native" regiments drawn from the French colonies : tirailleurs algeriens, marocains, tunisiens, sénégalais, annamites etc...Or native cavalry regiments : spahis ?

Regards

Veteran

• This cross with the appended Holy Ghost is traditionnaly worn by French members of the Reformed Church (i.e. Protestants). It is not an award of any kind, nor the badge of any specific society.
• It is therefore comparable to a Crucifix for a Roman Catholic, a Star of David for a Jew or a Hand of Fatma for a Moslim. It is often worn by ladies hanging from a chain. Sometimes called "Huguenot crosses", they can be bought in many jewellers shops, particularly in the traditionnally protestant areas of France.

Such badges have naturally nothing to do with the Order of the Holy Ghost, which was the highest royal order of chivalry and awarded to French Catholic aristocracy only. The mistake is understandable and quite frequent.

Regards

Veteran

Hi Chris

I can understand your excitement about this very unusual find. It certainly looks right to me.

The "ribbon" is quite unique. Just cannot remember seeing anything quite like that before, it looks homemade to me..

Sorry I cannot suggest anything about the written statement in the back. Salut !