lilo

Hi All,

I would like to have your help to correctly identify the Medal and the Cross I posted below.

They probably are Serbian awards but what exactly ?

I need the correct name for each of the two awards and – if possible – a clear photo showing also the correct RIBBONS from which they should be suspended.

Many Thanks in advance

Best Regards

Lilo

P.S. The 'Cross' shown is very similar to the Serbian Red Cross I know but it differs for the lacking of the crown suspension, for the different center and for the ribbon from which it is suspended.

Hi bovec1313,

Your clarification was excellet !

Again Many Thanks for your Help

Best Regards

Lilo

Hi paja / bovec1313

Many Thanks to both for the answers and precious photos/link posted.

bovec1313

Yes, the text from your book about this medal was very interesting.

Two things remain obscure to me :

1) Why the Cross was called 'medal' ? In other words, I would like to know if in Serbia the Cross in exam is usually called and known as 'MEDAL'.

2) Can this CROSS be awarded to FOREIGN and to personnel of RED CROSS ?

Again Many Thanks for your Help

Best Regards

Lilo

While I was researching the life and the medals of British/Canadian Lieutenant General John Wimburn LAURIE (1835-1912), I discovered that He was a Red Cross Commissioner in the Servo-Bulgarian War of 1885.

In his bio it was indicated that he received, between others, a 'War Medal'.

What is it the Serbian War Medal awarded for the 'Serbian-Bulgarian War of 1885' ?

Can someone post a colour photo from which I can exactly see the colours of the ribbon from which it is suspended ?

Many Thanks in advance to all that can help

Regards

Lilo

Hi Sergey,

Many thanks for your statement : it is very important to me !

Kind Regards

Lilo

Hi cimbineus,

Many thanks for your guess : I have greatly appreciated it !

Kind Regards

Lilo

Hello cimbineus,

Posted below is a photo of an award given to an Italian High Ranking Officer (unfortunately, I don't know the year of award).

I know that the photo is not clear (it was taken in a museum through a glass) but if possible I would like to know if you can establish if he received the 'ORDER' or the 'CROSS' of Merit ?

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Best Regards

Lilo

Hi Paul,

Thank you for the clarification.

Regards

Lilo

The plain red robbon is probably the French Legion of Honour. Foreign orders were originally worn before Japanese medals. The red and white ribbon is the Imperial Constitution Promulgation Medal from 1889. The last two ribbons on this group seem implausible, he would have had to be sufficiently important to get the medal in 1889 and still be knocking around in Manchuria in 1934 ! Not impossible but definitely unusual.

Hi Paul,

Thanks but the only ribbon of the Imperial Constitution Promulgation Medal I have ever seen is as that in the photo below. Is it the correct one ?

If yes, it doesn't match with that of the ribbon bar.

Anyone can help, please ?????

Hi,

Finally I got a beautiful picture not only of the Sash Badge but also of the colours of the Sash ribbon : It is illustrated on pages 138-139 of the new book 'Chinese Orders 1862-1955' by Gongquing Li that I highly recommend.

Regards

Lilo

Hi All,

Can someone help me in correctly identify the two ribbons (Nr. 1 - Nr. 2) of the photo below attached ?

Thanks

Lilo

Have there been any developments regarding the SWORDS or WITHOUT SWORDS? What is protocol for Imp Rus. documents, if not mentioned, do you assume it was issued without? I would think an Admiral would get a with swords version of an award.

Hi Claudius,

I had no further imput as you can see.

Pavel kindly told me that this document don't show if this Order is with or Without swords.

Although I also think that an Admiral should receive an award with swords, My personal opinion is that if not mentioned is should be a NO swords award. This is based on my observing of many awards made to british military personell that received the version without swords. I think, but I'm not sure, that the award of an Order with or Without swords depend on the fact if the particular situation that generated that award is for war (or something of similar ???) or not.

Regards

Lilo

P.S. As you I also wait for the answer by more unknwoledged people.

Hi Paul,

Thank you very much for your kindness !

This group was missed from my database.

In another thread on this forum I have read that in the next future you'll do a trip to Japan and have offered another member to look for a particular item (help that the other member refused).

May I ask you to try to find another miniature of 1904-05 War Medal ?

As you can see mine is a little different from that in your group and I would like to obtain one of this miniature medal with the exact colours (not faded or stained) of the ribbon and of the bronze of the medal itself as that in your photo.

Can you help me please ?

Best Regards

Lilo

Minis do exist for most of the orders and medals. I have only once seen a Golden Kite mini and I have seen a few campaign medal minis. The easiest one of these to find is the 1904-05 War Medal, I have two of these that are with a UK group to an official observor who was an officer in the British Army and was awarded the Rising Sun, Sacred Treasure and 1904-05 War Medal in addition to his British awards.

The normal Japanese mini groups, however, are what you would expect to see on a diplomat rather than a soldier.

Hi Paul,

As I collect the photos of all the British medal groups containing Japanese Orders and expecially the 1904-05 War Medal, May I ask you to post a photo of such miniature group ?

Can you please let me also know to who it was awarded (there were NOT many that received the 1904-05 War Medal, indeed).

In mean time this is the miniature of 1904-05 War Medal in my collection :

Lilo,

can you post a pictures of major Baracca's orders and medals, maybe a picture of him ?

Remember,

Hi Sasa,

You are completely right !

Below is the photo of the man himself.

Regards

Lilo

P.S. (again many thanks for your help !)

Hi Jeff,

Reading what is it written at : http://chinesemedal....ers-2009-08-13/ , I understood that what is called 'Order of the Button', really it is the early type of the Double Dragon Order.

In my opinion, the words 'Order of the Button' generated from a westerner identification of this Order that, for lack of information or for whatever other reason, the Occidentals not knowing how to call it, simply seeing the central stone on this type of Order, at some point started to call it as : 'Order of the Button'.

Regards

Lilo

Hi All,

As a reference for All on the forum, I list below the full medal entitlement of Major Francesco Baracca (the WW1 Top italian ace KIA in 1918) :

1. Gold Medal Al Valore Militare, 1917;

2. Silver Medal Al Valore Militare, 1916;

3. Silver Medal Al Valore Militare, 1916;

4. Silver Medal Al Valore Militare, 1917;

5. Bronze Medal Al Valore Militare, 1916;

6. Italy Military Order of Savoy, Cavalier (1917);

7. Nr. 1 War Cross 'Al Merito di Guerra';

8. Italy Order of the Crown of Italy, Cavalier;

9. Medal for Italo-Austrian war 1915-18 + (4 bars 1915, 1916, 1917, 1918);

10. Medal of Unità d'Italia (dated 1848-1918);

11. Victory Medal;

12. Belgium, Order of the Crown, Officer;

13. Belgium, WW1 CdG;

14. France, WW1 CdG + 1 palma in bronzo;

15. Serbia, Order of Karageorge with swords, 4th class.

FYI

Regards

Lilo

In the Japanese army a 3rd class award would normally have gone to about a colonel. I have seen awards to foreign majors and Lt Colonels of the 3rd class but if he got it as a captain then it must have been something very significant that he did.

Hi PAul,

Many Thanks

Regards

Lilo

It is entirely possible that he had both Rising Sun and Sacred Treasure. Basically the Japanese title says that he is a holder of the 3rd class order of merit. This is used to describe somebody who has a 3rd class Sacred Treasure or a 3rd Class Rising Sun. If he had both awards it would still say the same thing. Also if he had a third class of one, and a lower class of the other it would still only refer to his third class.

Hence the only thing we can say for definite looking at the way his name is written on the document you showed is that he had at least one 3rd class award. We can also say that he definitely did not have anything higher than 3rd class from Japan, otherwise that would be the class of order of merit mentioned.

I hope this helps.

Hi Paul,

many thanks for such detailed explanation.

I checked the possible military rank he held in the period 1904-1906 and He was a Tenente di Vascello (till up to 1911) in the Royal Italian Navy. This rank is the corresponding rank of Captain in the army.

Is the rank Tenente di Vascello (= Captain) the correct rank to receive a 3rd class Japanese Order ?

Thank you

Regards

Lilo

Hi Veteran,

Thank you very much for your explanation !

Regards

Mauro

Hi Lilo,

Date is : 6 September 1904 (period of russo-japanese war)

Regards

Pavel

Hi Pavel

Many Thanks

Regards

Lilo

Hi again Paul,

From the above document is it possible to say that he received BOTH the Rising Sun and the Sacred Treasure Orders ?

I would affirm this reading also an article taken from the 'Osaka Mainiki' newspaper, English daily edition. 28 july 1922 - see below attachment, in which it is clearly stated that this Admiral had both the Rising Sun and the Sacred Treasure Orders.

Is it possible to exactly establish what classes for each Order He received and when ?

As an aside, He was a Military Observer of the Russo- Japanese War 1904-1905 and a Naval Attachè in Tokio embassy (May 1904 - April 1906).

He received the Japan, Russo- Japanese War medal 1904-05.

Can you answer to my 2 questions ?

Regards

Lilo

Hi again Pavel,

can you please let me know the exact awarding date (taking it from the document) of this Russian Order ?

I would be interested in day/manth/year.

Thank you

Lilo

Hi All,

I have attached below the award document of the : 'Perù, medalla del Centenario, 1921'.

Can anyone know what is it this medal and what its ribbon ??

In other words I would like to see an example of the medal, including its ribbon, issued with the below attached Diploma.

Many Thanks in advance

Regards

Lilo