lilo

Hi again Jeff,

Many Thanks

Regards

Lilo

Hi Carol 1,

Many Thanks for your help : I have much appreciated it !

I have not an exact date (may be ca. 1926) of award but I think that it was a WW1 award : can you confirm this dating the document I have attached ?

Last, Am I correct that the ribbon for this Order was : Red with two Blue stripes near each edge ?

Regards

Lilo

Hello

As far as I can read this is not specified : only "Order St Anne 3 rd class"

Maybe on the rest of the document ?

Please send to : patasacha@free.fr

Regards

Pavel

Hi Pavel,

As requested I sent the full size resolution to your address !

Please let me know also your simple guess.

Regards

Lilo

With swords.

Hi Jeff,

Many Thanks for your help !

May I ask you what is the exact word in the document, denoting that it was with swords ?

Regards

Lilo

This is a document awarding him a gold cup (most likely a presentation silver gilt sake cup), not an order or medal. However the way his name is written suggests that he has previously been awarded the 3rd class of either the Sacred Treasure or the Rising Sun (but that will be a different document).

Hi PAul,

Many Thanks for your help !

Regards

Lilo

Hi All,

I would like to understand if from the document below awarding the Order of Star of Roumania to an Italian Admiral, we can understand if it was awarded with or WITHOUT 'swords'.

In the document it is stated : ""Numitul va purtà insemnele militare de pace"" (more or less it means : The awarded receive the Military insigna of peace')

I have attached a resized document so, if needed, I have a very High Resolution photo of the entire document that I can send only by email.

Who can give me a definitive answer ?

Best Regards

Mauro

Hi All,

I would like to have your help to try to understand if the document below : 'citation a l'Ordre de la Division', correspond to the award of the France WW1 Croix de Guerre + 1 Silver Star on the ribbon to an Italian Admiral that received the below document

I have attached a resized document so, if needed, I have a very High Resolution photo of the entire document that I can send only by email.

Who can give me an answer ?

Best Regards

Mauro

Hi All,

I would like to have your help to try to understand if the Order of Orange Nassau (Grand Officer), an Italian Admiral received with the below document, is With or WITHOUT swords.

I have attached a resized photo of the awarding document below (If needed I have a very High Resolution photo of this document that I can send only by email)

Who can give me an answer ?

Best Regards

Mauro

Hi All,

I would like to have your help to try to understand if the Order of St. Anne (3rd class), an Italian Admiral received with the below document, is With or WITHOUT swords.

I have attached an abstract of the awarding document below (If needed I have a very High Resolution photo of the entire document that I can send only by email)

Who can give me an answer ?

Best Regards

Lilo

Hi All,

I would like to have your help to try to understand what Order (and in which class), if any at all, an Italian Admiral received with the below document : who can help ?

Thanks in advance

Regards

Lilo

...I remember that the higher grades then the 3rd grade (1st and 2nd) of the 2nd model are all accompanied by a breast star. So the 3rd grade was to translate for europeans as "commander" class...

Matthias

By the way my example was awarded in 1909 to a Captain (Hauptmann Streit)

Hi Matthias,

Thanks for your replay.

I already have bought the book you suggested !

Best Regards

Lilo

Hello again,

I started this post to try to positively identify what was the Chinese Order an Italian Admiral received.

I apologise in advance for the stupid question to follow :

From reading his military papers, I know that the Admiral in question received the : China, Order of the Double Dragon.

The class of this Order He received is written using an Italian word : 'COMMENDATORE'.

In the italian reward system there are five classes for a data Order : The 'COMMENDATORE' class occupy the 3rd level (I think that the corresponding british class is that of COMMANDER [neck badge]).

My Question :

Am I rigth in understanding that the italian Admiral received the : '3RD GRADE' of the Order of the Double Dragon that in italian words was traslated as the class of 'COMMENDATORE' ??

Please taking in mind that :

1) I don't know the RANK this officer had at the time of the award of this Chinese Order;

2) The Admiral had this Order gazetted later (17th June 1919) when it (the Order) was already obsolete.

Many Thanks for any input

Regards

Lilo

Li, Gonqing

Chinese Orders 1862-1955, Toronto 2009, english and chinese text, limited to 500 copys.

Have a look here: www.orden-der-welt.de use the button "Fachliteratur" it is possible to order a copy at Michael Autengrubers page (or where ever else :-)

Best regards

Matthias

Thanking very much for the Matthias information I discovered an exceptional blog that should be read by all members deeply interested on Chinese Orders.

The link is : http://chinesemedal.wordpress.com/

Thanks again MATTHIAS !

Regards

Lilo

............. A new work about Chinese Imperial Orders is on the market, probably someone here is in possession of this book...

Hi again Matthias,

do you happen to remember the exact title of the new book about Chinese Imperial Orders to which you referred above ?

I would be interested in buying a copy.

Many Thanks

Lilo

Hi Matthias / Michael,

Many thanks for your precious answers !

Best Regards

Lilo

Hi Lilo,

the above shown photo displays a 3rd grade, 1st class...and the ribbon is exactly the right one (in colour and quality).

Regards,

Matthias

Hi Matthias,

Many thanks for your replay.

What I would like to know is if the above ribbon (with that exact colours) is also used for the following class and gradeS of the (2nd Type Double Dragon) :

- 3rd CLASS (1st Grade);

- 3rd CLASS (2nd Grade);

- 3rd CLASS (3rd Grade);

Can you confirm it or Not ?

Regards

Lilo

Hi to All,

I would like to know if the colours of the ribbon used for the 3rd class of a 2nd Type of the China, Order of Double Dragon are the same as in the photo below attached :

Many Thanks in advance

Regards

Lilo

Gents,

Perhaps, it is a bit late, but, nevertheless, I deem it necessary to dispel some misunderstandings with regard to the questions posed. My first remark is that the three questions are extremely intelligent and appropriate.

1.) Your understanding is totally correct, lilo. The turning date was 23 December 1935. Before that date there was "CROSS", after that date it became "ORDER". The Crosses and Orders differ from each other in the number of degrees, their names, sizes and shapes too.

2.) In 1929 there was only green ribbon for the Merit Crosses both for military and civilian persons. Foreigners could also receive those awards only on green ribbons. The war ribbon was introduced on 14 April 1939 only.

3.) Yes, that is the correct ribbon, the green one, but there should be a miniature of the Cross on it. For the Grand Crosses and Crosses I. Class 25 mm in diameter, for the Crosses II. Class: 18 mm, III. Class: 15 mm, IV. Class: 12 mm and the V. Class with no miniature, just the plain green ribbon.

Regards,

cimbineus

Hello cimbineus,

Many, many thanks for your compliments and striking response.

So, in conclusion, Baden Powell received the 'Hungarian, Cross of Merit' without Swords and suspended from a plain green ribbon, isn'it ?

Thanks again

Lilo

Hi,

In my opinion, the medal Darrell shows in posts 1 & 2 has a modern replaced ribbon and the colors are NOT correct. The other piece Darrell shows in post #4, as well as those other pieces shown are original, period ribbons.

Here is another original Italian Victory Medal with a modern replaced ribbon. I know it's replaced as I conducted a burn test and examined it under high resolution magnification and you can see the modern synthetic material. It is commonly sold by one ebay seller out of Germany.

Tim

Hi Tim,

Obviously in my first post I didn't specified which Victory medals posted by members Darrell and ilja559 had the correct WW1 Italian ribbon so I edited my first post accordingly to be more clear.

Regarding the ribbon you posted saying that it is the new copy ribbon used for the WW1 Italian Victory medals I must say that I agree with you only about the fact that it is new but I have never seen it here in Italy.

Great picture!!!

Is the last one on the fourth row perhaps an Iraqi order of al-rafidan??

cheers

JC

Hi JC,

To me it's just the Iraq Order of Al-Rafidan !

You can see in the post Nr. #7 by Antonio Prieto the photo in which He wears the Military ribbon for this Order (last bottom row, the central red ribbon with 3 black stripes)

Lilo

Hi All,

FYI, the colour of the ribbon from which the Victory medals shown by members Darrell (on post #4) and ilja559 (on posts #9 and # 10) is the correct, more common and first one issued with this medal. After the war another type (a little different) was used to substitute the first when it was broken.

Lilo

So also the period match with that of the photo as Colonel of the Mexican Army (i.e. before WW1) ??

The marksmanship with swords medal awarded to Thord Gray :

...............................................

The medal mentioned in the link to Army Museum is for marksmanship with swords. The skidlöpning medal is for promoting skiing.

From what you have written, I have understood that there were more than one medal with similar ribbon and appearance in the Swedish medal system but as that attribuited to Thord-Gray was with two crossed swords (see : http://www.digitaltm...filterCriterias=), there is no doubt that he received that for marksmanship with swords and NOT for promoting skiing.

Now some specific question about this particular medal :

1) What is the exact name for the 'marksmanship with swords' medal (please in Swedish and in English) ???

2) Is it an official or UN-official medal ?

3) Do you retain that this medal (althought suspended from a wrong ribbon) could be that represented by the ribbon worn by Thord-Gray in the picture in which He is represented as a Colonel in Mexico in 1914 and not a Chinese one ?

4) When (the probable year) Thord-Gray could have received this medal ?

5) Was this medal clearly mentioned in the list compiled by Thord-Gray's nephew (Mj Gen Arne Hallström) as one awarded to Thord-Gray ?

Lilo

Tord also wore the Svenska Brigaden 1918 in blue-yellow-blue ribbon instead of the original as below.

Hi Mopsi,

You are correct that Thord-Gray worn the 'Svenska Brigaden 1918' with a blue-yellow-blue ribbon (instead of its original) and the shade of the blue colour is very light.

If you see the photo of his miniature group, you can see that He worn two medals from similar 'blue-yellow-blue' ribbons :

- that I indicated with the Nr. 1 (on the left) is the 'Svenska Brigaden 1918' medal;

- the other indicated with the Nr. 2 (on the rigth) is, almost surely, the 'marksmanship with swords' medal.