James Hoard

Just my thoughts here--

The association 'Japan Manchuria Friendship Association' was a fairly well-known propaganda-type group probably financed by Japan. I am not sure... A quick glance over the web shows that the group sponsored ... calligraphy tournaments ...

Did they sponsor feather fencing too?

Cheers

James

Quite frankly Canadian Customs are just about the most 'jobsworth' group I have ever had to deal with. That comes from someone who ships books all over the world, from Japan to Jamaica and everything inbetween.

We sell rare and second hand books and often have to ship items to Canada. They are not supposed to charge any duty on them provided they are shipped by post as 'printed papers'. This pi...s the hell out of some of the Customs officers, so they try every trick they can. One has got to be on one's toes and do everything by the book. We had one parcel returned because our (return) address label had been inadvertantly pasted on the back, not the bottom left hand corner of the front, according to their rules!

Sometimes the customs officer is determined to charge import duty come what may. He looks in his books of tables and a note says he cannot charge. He does not like it, so checks back and forth with various authorities in the local capital, in Ottowa, and then with God, in the vain hope that one of them will say yes. In the meantime the package remaines embargoed for days or weeks. Finally when he has to release it without charging duty and defeated in his object, he charges the customer an "adminsitrative fee" for his own wasted effort.

Some of the Customs services in the so-called 'third world' are supposed to be officious, corrupt, slow, inefficient, lazy, bound up in red tape, etc, etc, etc. But in my experience the Canadian Customs Service puts them all to utter shame.

James

It's something that concerns me - if it LOOKS like a medal, it needs to recorded correctly so that future observers know what they are looking at. I have a (much-neglected) section on my site for such items, suppose I'd better set up a section for organisational awards as well - many of these are nationally-based (the French & the Belgiums seem particularly fond of 'em) so these may be best placed as clearly-demarked subsections of national sections.

A very good point indeed.

The poor young chap starting out on a medal collecting hobby could easily be fooled. Especially since some of the ribbons, particularly those by UK manufacturers, closely ghost those of official awards.

Personally, I do not like the terminology because there are official commemorative medals and there is always a chance of confusion. They should be called unofficial tokens, pseudo medals or something else.

James

There is an official English language publication which has information on decorations and medals with illustrations (drawings). It is the government annual almanac or directory, full of statistics, trade addresses, tourist information, etc. A very general work, which on the face of it should have nothing in it about medals and decoration, but it does. The most recent edition can usually be found on the open shelves of the government directories section of any large good national library.

I faintly remember that it may well be called something like "Burma Year Book and Directory" or "Myanmar Year Book and Directory" but the next time I am at the British Library, I will try and note down the title.

Cheers

James

THEY aren't flunkies. We mean Hereditary Under-Wardens of the Salt Cellar and Privy Minions of the Handkerchief Pantry.

I think you will find that even the type of functionaries you try to mock with non-existant offices, are still largely drawn from or have served in the military forces.

While not being a fan of unofficial medals in any way shape or form, as devils advocate I think ....

If I was at a reception and some old vet turned up with the Normandy unofficial medal... and next to him was someone wearing a medal for kissing the butt of His Royal Highness Peter of somewhere in Scandinavia...

For me I would talk to the Normandy Vet first off.

We (me included) make a bit of a joke about the Weimar bars, medals wrapped in "Somme" "Verdun" "Flanders" bars on them... not official in any way shape or form.... But maybe an unofficial "Verdun Cross" wearer has more right to enamel on his breast than those servants of the court who have decorations from every crowned head of Europe for bowing low and folding back their sheets.

any thoughts?

If someone turns up at a reception with unnofficial commemorative medals that have obviously been bought in the open market, I would start wondering about any official medals he may also be wearing.

Meeting someone for the first time, I would not have a clue if he has kissed someone else's butt or not, so would not make any such rash assumptions about anyone.

As for palace flunkeys, don't palace recruitment policies generally mean that their staff have a very high proportion of chaps from a military background?

Cheers,

James

Apparently the Order of the Crown was handed out to Romania's British allies with some frequency, as I had one for many years to a British offcier of Indian Cavalry who may or may not have been able to find Romania on a map! The chap I got it from had actually known an officer from the same unit, a contemporary of my man. His rather scurulous explanation was that the Romanians "sent them round to the War Ministry every Christmas" where they were issued to officers who had been recommended for but not gotten British decorations. Certainly my man had never served anywhere he could possibly have qualified for a Crown on his merits.

Doesn't this story "do the rounds" a bit too much? I seem to have seen it applied to several foreign awards for the sake of a good yarn, but is actually something of an urban myth.

One does not actually need to go to Romania, Romania sometimes comes to one. The two Royal families were closely related with visits back and forth. Ample opportunity for the odd ADC or flunky to pick up a Romanian award. As far as India goes, Crown Prince Carol was sent there on an extended visit and Romanian decorations were distributed.

Apart form this, during the Great War there would have been people in British military and civilian life who would have performed all sorts of services for the country while never leaving these shores. Anything from proving war loans to purchasing armaments, or from being attached to military delegations to helping out some Romanian military official in a bit of bother far away from home in the wilds of Persia.

From my observations of the War Office and Foreign Officer Lists and their respective deliberations in the Kew National Archives, some care was taken. At least after about 1916. They were distributed to people who had some connection with, by performing some service to, with or for the country awarding the decoration. They were not handed out willy-nilly at Christmas to whoever may not have received a British gong.

One must remember that as the War went on, there was a general tightening up of awards. In the early days of the War even the British MC and DSO were being distributed rather liberally. Not necessarily for actions one would have classed as gallentry by the standards of WW2. My own grand uncle's citation for his MC says that he received it for staying-put in his machine-gun post for 48 hours non-stop in Palestine.

The reasons why the respective allied War Offices were given the task of compiling the lists was because a) the awarding country's chancery invariably got the names, titles and ranks hopelessly wrong to the point where sometimes the individuals could not be identified or traced and b) because the receiving country would be more up to date on casualties, current rank, unit, etc.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,

James

Dear Hoard,

The color of great eagle of the Collar is black, you must be sure for this. Klietmann on his Ordens Lexicon descript very well this decoration. Does not exist a statute for the Collar. A part of the comments that we have done for inaccurate during the period of Wied, we can apply for Zog period. See attach a photo of Zog as President in 1926, when he wear together, the neck badge of SO, the star of SO and the grand sash of SO !!! Real ridiculous.

Dear Artan,

The photograph of Zog seems to date from a period just before the creation of the other orders, when the SO may have been the only decoration. Hence, he wears neck badge, sash badge and breast star. It isn't all that rediculous. I have seen other people similarly attired from other countries.

You do not comment at all on my observations on the appearance and shape of the eagle, so I take it that you agree, yes?

From what we have seen in the various exchanges recently we can summerise as follows:

1) a statute for the Order of Sanderbeg mentions a collar for that order.

2) there are no statutes for the so-called 'Grand Collar of Albania'.

3) the only available records of a prominent recipient of the collar (King Albert of Belgium) say that he received the Collar of Honour of the Order of Scanberbeg in two different references.

4) the collar worn by King Zog includes a badge almost identical to the badge of the Order of Scanderbeg, the apparent difference being that the outline of the central medallion is in the shape of a shield not a circle.

This all sounds to me very much like we have a Collar of the Order of Scanderbeg.

There may or may not have been a Grand Collar of Albania, but that is unlikely to be the same as the collar worn by King Zog or received by King Albert. Quite possibly it fell into disuse within a very short space of time or morphed into/was superceded by the Collar of Honour of the Order of Scanberbeg.

What are the sources for the "Grand Collar of Albania" independent of Kleitmann?

Cheers,

James

The very first examples conferred simply had the wording "Sultan d'Anjouan" on the circular rim of the central medallion. This was an eight-pointed star with straght rays and a small five-rayed star between the two upper rays and the suspension loop.

In the last years of the nineteenth century the present familiar design took shape and the inscription became "Ordre Royal de l'etoile d'Anjouan" "Comores".

The order was recognized by the French government and became a french colonial order in 1897. After that I expect that it was the French conferred decorations that may have had "Ordre de l'etoile d'Anjouan" "Comores" to distinguish it from the awards made by the Sultan. I don't know when the French conferred awards were changed to the "Royal" inscription, but the Sultan was still making awards in 1915 and he died in 1931.

Cheers,

James

Artan

I have been looking closely at your very useful "collage" of photographs.

It looks like the eagle suspended from the collar being worn by King Zog and the badge in the illustration of the "collar of Albania" are quite different.

The illstrated eagle is much more like the black eagle of the Albanian national coat of arms. However, the eagle suspended from the King's collar is very much like the badge of the Order of Scanderbeg. The wing feathers of are all close together and upward sloping.

The enamelling of the eagle also looks to be a lighter colour rather. Look, for instance, at the difference in shade between the king's uniform collar and the enamelling on the badge. Clearly the eagle is not in black enamel.

Are there any statutes available for the "collar of Albania" with an official description?

Sincerely,

James

Artan

Thanks for information.

Here's a link to King Leka's organisation in which there are details of a few appointments during 2008, together with images of the Grand Officer and Commander insignia bestowed on the recipients.

http://albania.dyndns.org/najbor01092008.htm

The central medallion of the GO star seems to be silver. Not sure if that was always the case with the type II GO star.

Cheers,

James

Dear James,

I resend to you the same photo, with the names of the decorations.

Regards,

Artan

Good Morning Artan,

Thank you for your post.

Actually, I do know which order is which.

I was really asking about details for the Order of Bravery. Did the first class have precedence over all the other decorations, what were the conditions of award, name of the order in Albanian, and names of the different grades.

Do you have larger scans of the grades?

With kind regards,

James

Many thanks Artan and 922F

I guess the Carol I badge must be partly hidden under the lapel in the b/w photo that I posted.

He wears the star of the Order of Fidelity on his left breast, but below the Order of Bravery. So I guess the Order of Bravery must have had the most senior rank amongst all the orders??

Do you have any more details about this order, e.g. Albanian name, classes and conditions of award?

Cheers,

James

Do you have statutes indicating that the Order of Skanderbeg included a collar? No statutes or other documents known to me, other than the flawed World Orders of Knighthood & Merit entry, suggest such grade of that Order existed or currently exists. There is no bibliographical cite or other evidence supporting the World Orders of Knighthood & Merit assertion regarding the name of this insignia. It appears that Mankoo accepted bad information regarding the award name or made an incorrect assumption.

The authors may have taken the information from King Albert's entry in the annual Belgian Court Almanac. A version of the entry seems to have been copied to this website http://www.ars-moriendi.be/ALBERT_I_FR.HTM

I do not have any statutes myself but one assumes that King Albert received a set when he received his collar.

All this being said, King Zog does wear another collar in this picture. The second one below the Annunziata, don't know what it is:

I thought at first that the badge attached to it may be the Order of Bravery 1st class but it does not seem to be so.

Cheers,

James

Isn't Arton Lame's picture a better version of the b&w one on my site?

Isn't the badge on your collar plain and un-enamelled, presumably in plain gold?

This collar has to bee in the collections of the Belvue Museum in Brussels

http://www.belvue.be/home.php?la=en

some background information

Collier d'honneur de l'ordre de Skanderberg,

avec briliants et rubis (1925)

10 Dec 1929, remise au nom d'ahmed Zogou, roi d'Albanie sous le nom de Skanderberg III, par une mission sp?ciale dirig?e par le ministre du palais Ekram Bey Libohova

Indeed so. The decoration King Albert received (and the drawing posted above) was the Collar of the Order of Skanderbeg.

The Grand Coller of Albania was a different recoration. Megan has a small b/w picture of the badge and a part of the chain on her excellent website. Please see http://www.medals.org.uk/albania/albania-k...-kingdom005.htm

Cheers,

James

The Japanese field cap looks correct for the Taisho era, but I'm no expert. I'm sure there is one on the forum, though.

Looking at the one Meiji-period cap I have, the star looks about right. The Japanese stars of the period were very big.

What about Siam? The Belgian Musee d'Armee has a bunch of their uniforms on display. You may want to try to find some pictures online, I've seen them before. The Siamese actually did have I believe some ground troops and an aviation detachment on the Western Front so such an officer ending up in Germany is possible if highly unlikely.

~TS

Siam is impossible. She joined the allies, their uniforms were modelled on British uniforms and her people are not very tall.

As for Burma, mentioned by someone in an earlier post, she was a part of the British Empire and then a province of India.

Cheers

James

Dear 922,

An interesting and thought provoking post but 'off mark' on a number of points.

Firstly, one can hardly claim that the Prince of Wied was a protocol stickler in defence of an argument in favour of imprecision!

Imprecision is the only basis on which one could contend that the military medal mentioned in the award document was the medal of the order of the Black Eagle. There is no prima facie evidence to connect the two decorations whatsoever.

It isn't at all surprising that documents were not found in the Wied family archives in Neuwied. Prince Wilhelm settled in Rumania and became a Rumanian citizen in the 1930's. His wife's family was descended from the Cantacuzeno family of Moldova and she owned landed property there. I think their principal residence was Fantanele Castle, where one supposes the Prince would have had his papers and belongings. They may still survive there or in some other Rumanian archive, unless lost during the Communist era when his daughter was sent to and perished in a gulag.

There is no certificate or record of the award to Abbas Hilmi at the Abidin Palace because he was in exile in Turkey at the time. He had been ill when war broke out in 1914 and was recuperating in Istanbul when the British proclaimed a protectorate and Hussein Kamal was installed as Sultan. Abbas Hilmi continued to be recognised as the "legitimate" ruler of Egypt by the Central Powers throughout WW1 and received several decorations in that capacity. The only records regarding Abbas Hilmi's awards at Abidin are those that concern the awards he received before 1914.

All the letterheads prove is that the palace may have had a shortage of stationery.

I find it quite astonishing that people can compose whole posts demonstrating fluid situations or imprecision, and provide a host of reasons why correct form was not followed, but cannot admit the possibility that a hitherto unknown decoration may have existed and that it may be worth further investigation.

Cheers

James

Order of the Chrysanthemum (Japan)

Attributed to Queen Maria. Judging by the width of the sash, it might have been conferred to King Ferdinand.

Carol I

Many thanks for posting the beautiful series of orders.

I agree with you about the Grand Crodon of the Order of the Chrysanthemum of Japan. It would never have been conferred on a lady at that time. Queen Marie would have received the Grand Cordon of the Order of the Precious Crown. The Chrysanthemum sash and breast star either belong with the collar to King Ferdinand or was conferred separately on King Carol II when Crown Prince.

The Order of the Crown of India was definitely awarded to Queen Marie. She received it on 11.12.1893. However, the badge shown seems to have lost some of its ribbon. There should be a 'tail' below the bow.

Cheers

James

The Queen has approved the new government's recommendation to restore the titles of Knight (Sir) and Dame for the two highest classes of the New Zealand Order of Merit.

Principal and Distinguished Companian will revert to Knight/Dame Grand Companion and Knight/Dame Companion.

Those appointed to the first and second class under the previous government have also been given until the Queen?s Birthday in June to decide if they want to receive the accolade.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/2114853/PM-to-restore-titles-of-Knights-and-Dames

Cheers

James

A new order seems to have been founded in Bhutan in about November 2008 called the Order of the Druk Gyalpo meaning the "Order of the King" or the "King's Order".

Copyright? BBS

http://www.bbs.com.bt/His%20Majesty%20conf...k%20Gyalpo.html

Copyright? Bhutan2008

Despite the story line it looks quite obvious that the Queen-Grandmother has received a higher class of the order compared to that awarded to His Holiness Je Thrizur Tenzin Dendup. The neck badge of the latter seems to be about half the size of that conferred on the former, and comes without the breast badge.

My guess is that the order has three classes, much the same as the Druk Wangyel. The First Class insignia perhaps consisting of a neck badge and breast star worn from a short medal ribbon on the left chest. Second Class consisting of a neck badge only, smaller in size to the first class and worn from a narrower neck ribbon. Third Class consisting of a chest badge worn from a medal ribbon.

The colour of the ribbon seems to be gold moire with narrow edge stripes of white then red (or russet).

Cheers,

James.

Dear James,

My exact point of view is that: We can not check accuracy on the terms used during the six months of Wied in Albania. If we find used the term "Military Medal" instead of "Black Eagle Medal" or, "Albanian Eagle" instead of "Black Eagle" this should not be understood as another medal or order, but as simply inaccuracy.

The same reasoning can applies to the Babilonia of languages spoken in Durres at that moment.

By the way, can you tell me what the hell of language is speaking in this picture the Prusian prince of Wied with an aborigine of mountains of Albania?

Dear Artan,

The way that I see it, there is a world of difference between an official document of appointment and a book written for a generalist foreign readership. At least in the latter case one can easily make out from the use of the words Eagle, Order and Albanian that the writer is talking of the Order of the Black Eagle. In the former case there isn't a single word to link the two, only pure guesswork.

Cheers,

James

Dear Hoard,

The same Heaton-Armstron who was secretary of the Black Eagle Order, call him simply "Albanian Eagle Order" in his book (!!!).

Regards,

Artan

Artan,

Sorry, but what is your point exactly?

Are you saying that the order wasn't Albanian or that his book is an official document conferring a decoration on a recipient?

Cheers,

James

Dear James,

The Classes of the orders in Albanian, during the period of King Zog and King V-E III, were:

1. Grand Cross: Kordon i Madh me Yll (Grand Cordon with Star).

2. Grand Officer: Oficer i Madh.

3. Commander: Kumandar.

4. Officer: Oficer.

5. Knight: Kalores.

I know the feeling, in 1962 I bought a Great War George V DFC for $15.00. Gunner 1

Don't know if this will make you feel 'good' or 'bad'.

Using latest available figures (2007) $15.00 from 1962 is worth:

$102.78 using the Consumer Price Index

$83.32 using the GDP deflator

$128.37 using the value of consumer bundle

$114.71 using the unskilled wage

$218.67 using the nominal GDP per capita

$353.68 using the relative share of GDP

Cheers,

James