GRA

Hmm, It really looks green .... maybe its the Cross for Fighting Group Oinonen I think that ribbon looks like that ?

Thanks Jonas

Christer

That's the one I was thinking of!

/Jonas

Here a n rather unusual style of ribbon bar , it looks almost american .

First the medal for war 1941-45, then medal for Olympic games 1952 , Civil defence medal and last a Swedish Order of the Sword ?

Hello Christer!

Nice ribbon bar, but do you really think it's an Order of the Sword??? It looks like green stripes instead of blue, could it be a unit commemorative medal/cross?

/Jonas

Oops sorry, British thread, but at least I got the age reasonably right... Mervyn, please move my contribution if you want.

/Jonas

Some details...

The title, there's also printed "Bayot lith" in the bottom right corner.

Here's my humble contribution to the thread...

A colour lithograph from Fritz von Dardel's "Svenska och Norska Arméerna samt flottorna i deras nuvarande uniformering" (The Contemporary Uniforms of the Swedish and Norwegian Armies and Navies), printed by Lemercier in Paris in the early 1860's. It's heading straight for the boy's room wall, whenever that room will be ready...

/Jonas

Just speculating now, but I'd say that the operators would be temporarily assigned from a specialist unit to the "unit in charge of the launch site". The launcher itself is, as you say, not exactly rocket science, but the message part of the operation would involve specialists. I'd be surprised if this was even a divisional asset (corps-level? army-level?), but there has to be someone on the forum who knows the organisation of the German army in WW2 being able to give a correct answer.

/Jonas

Thank you Odulf, one learns something new every day! I agree with Simon and Brian, good work finding that website, very interesting.

/Jonas

I agree with Simon, some sort of rocket firing device. I'm thinking the motor part of a mine-clearance "snake" - something pulling a hose of explosive out to full length before it is detonated clearing a path through AP (at least) and AT (probably) minefields and barbed wire. It is not high-precision work, and there are no aiming devices present on this device - just aim "in the general direction of".

/Jonas

PS. Simon, there's a breast eagle present, but it's not easy to catch. One of those woven ones?

The badge is the post 1906 version with a Latin motto scroll instead of a regimental title scroll and the Lion bears a remarkable similarity to the crest of the Duke of Wellington (Sans Banner), but I do not have my notes to hand to see if there is any association.

Hello Toby!

According to Brereton's "History of the 4th/7th Royal Dragoon Guards", it is the crest and motto of John Ligonier, who was the Colonel of 7th Dragoon Guards for 29 years. The Duke of Wellington's lion holds a banner as you say, and the motto is different too.

/Jonas

Hello Stuart!

Wasn't it a Regular serving with the Yeomanry? If that was the case of that particular RSM, then the cap badge of the 7th Dragoon Guards is a good candidate too.

/Jonas

William!

On the Life photo there seems to be an officer to the left (British?, he's wearing the ribbon of the 1939-45 Star), whose last ribbon looks like the UNEF ribbon, von Horn returned to Palestine after his Congo mission, so he certainly met UNEF personnel on a regular basis even if he wasn't on the UNEF roll himself.

No, I didn't know about the Finland thing. What I just found out though is that he had some problems as a young Second Lieutenant serving with Livgardet till häst (Horse Guards). His father and the GOC the Cavalry Inspection were brothers-in-law and they detested each other, predictably von Horn was caught in between a rock and a hard place when his regiment was up for review! He did however seem to have performed less than average on field exercises, which may have been a legit reason for the general to be less than satisfied with him.

/Jonas

In this photograph dated 1958, taken from his book, he sports a (seemingly all-metal) breast badge of an Order (Vasa?)

Probably the Order of the Sword...

William,

I don't know about UNEF, according to Swedish Wikipedia, it seems like UNTSO, ONUC and UNYOM were the only UN missions he served in (but then again, it's Wikipedia...). He also served as a military attaché in Norway and Denmark, so he might have got something from that service too (ribbon #10 of 15, Norwegian?). Does he wear a couple of UN ribbons as #2 and #3? It looks like the early ONUC version and UNTSO.

/Jonas

Hello William!

A/ Here's a link to a photo: Carl von Horn

B/ He died in 1989

As to his ribbons, at a quick glance I saw the Order of the Sword, some WW2 Finnish medals as well as some Volunteer Associations medals, nothing unusual for an officer of his rank at that time. I'll see if there's a colour photo lurking somewhere.

/Jonas

Markings on the Swedish blade - these show that it was used in their Navy.

Hello Mervyn!

This m/1896 bayonet could well have been used by the Swedish Navy - provided of course they were issued with it (it's beyond my knowledge) - but the marking is that of the Eskilstuna Jernmanufaktur, thus a maker's mark. I don't know if Swedish bayonets could be traced to certain units, there would be thousands issued, but sabres issued to the mounted units were marked down to squadron/battery. If the blurry stamp is what I think it is, then it could be the individual stamp within a certain unit (company/regiment).

/Jonas

Hello Timo!

That looks like you've got a Cheshire Regiment blazer badge there, I don't know about the value, but a quick Google session turned up prices ~£10 (but yours seems to be bullion, so maybe a little more?). Why not use it in a display of medals to the Cheshires instead of selling it? (Then again, my opinion might be biased, I'm a man of the cloth myself!)

/Jonas

Thank you Stuart!

It seems like in the British Army, regimental traditions and whims (and, dare I say, in a few cases also pigheadedness) by far outweighs Dress Regulations if need be, however that's how lasting traditions are made! Perhaps, as you imply, the Yeomanry (as all equivalent units) ought to have been kept out, as a combination of eccentric COs and "second rank position" in the Army could complicate the equation as to introduction / phasing out of certain parts of uniforms. A very interesting thread.

/Jonas

I received today a book on the Kent Yeomanry and it has a photo of a group of officers of the East Kent Mounted Rifles at Shorncliffe, 1901 all wearing the peaked cap. Notable also is the inclusion in the photo of a Regular Army Officer wearing the khaki version with his service dress.

There is also a photo of ORs c1905 wearing the pillbox cap with "walking out" dress.

I guess that this ends the thread with the peaked forage cap replacing the round cap over a period c1900 - 1907.

Stuart

Hello Stuart!

In the book you refer to (The Kent Yeomanry, by Boris Mollo, right?), on the page opposite the ORs of 1905, there's the following caption to a 1913 photo: "The pillbox forage cap has finally been replaced by a dark blue peaked cap with the regimental badge." Doesn't that imply that the pillbox cap could have been replaced even later than 1907? And forgive a novice (and do please educate me!), but on page 48 a group of ORs in 1913, also of the West Kent Yeomanry, wears torrin caps. Another cap replacing the pillbox cap and in its turn being replaced by the peaked cap?

/Jonas

I can appreciate the difficulties in translating this motto, I assume even Swedes will find it hard. "För" is "for" and "hem" is "home". The Swedish word "härd" has several meanings i.g. open fire-place, home, quiet corner, point of origin etc. In this context I would suggest "native place" or "home district".

Yes, I guess we could come up with a dozen plausible translations to that particular word between the two of us, and to top it off, we face a motto from a century ago, with another linguistic take on things. Good points, Peter!

/Jonas

Hello Jeff!

3. lag Korps M

3rd place in association championships (probably, "Korps" indicates an older, more military-oriented name for "förening", Korps M - föreningsmästerskap - association championships), whether the championships were open or members only I wouldn't know.

For Hem Och Hard

"For home and hearth", and old-style motto indicating patriotic origin, these shooting associations were, as I mentioned before, connected with the defence of the country. The members were certainly skilled riflemen, but soldiers they were not (the occasional ex-soldier could probably be found among the members, but this was above all a civilian, patriotic and democratic organisation). In the early 20th Century, just before The Great War, the military skills entered the Volunteer movement agenda too, but that is another story and to a part performed by different organisations...

Skytteforening

Shooting association/club

/Jonas

Has anyone seen this medal before? It says Stribergs Skytteforening on the front, I tried to translate it using iGoogle and I can only gather that it is some kind of shooting medal, any info would be apprecieated.

Jeff

Hello Jeff!

I haven't seen this particular medal before, but it is a medal from a shooting association, and the likes of it aren't uncommon. A lot of these associations were founded in the late 19th Century and early 20th Century, and I think they were supported one way or the other by the Swedish Army (weapons, instructors, ammunition etc), in any case they were a significant part of the Volunteer movement in Sweden. Striberg is a (former) mining town in Sweden, and you can see the iron symbol on the medal. I don't know whether the medal was awarded for shooting excellence / shooting competition victory / "association work" (being an association board member) or long-lasting membership, but most probably one of the first options. Is there any engraving on the reverse? Is there a maker's mark (Sporrong, perhaps)?

/Jonas

Swedish Police (Note skies on the motor)

Ed

Hello Ed!

BMW R75/5 with skis? Looks like something picked up from the Swedish Army. I haven't seen it in use myself, but somewhere I've come across this ski kit on motorcycle arrangement before, probably some old Army regulations or something from an Army Volunteer organisation. Åre kommun (city council)? - The upper-crust choice of winter fun in Sweden, good ski slopes, but a bit expensive, to say the least...

/Jonas

Hello William!

I agree with your observations on the staff - the whole country seems full of old, ignorant and, dare I say, grumpy old women "guarding" the treasures of the museums, and the translations into for example English seems to be a product of Google Translate (at best), but from my visit some years ago I also remember leaving it very impressed with the displays.

During my visit they had a temporary display on Heydrich and Op Anthropoid, and that was a very good one, surpassed only by the WW2 occupation display - with small means they managed to make you feel really ill at ease when you saw the horrors a country under occupation is exposed to, especially when the occupant wants to get rid of parts of the population.

This museum is one of three of the Czech armed forces, the aviation part residing at Kbely airfield and the vehicle part - tanks and other "toys for big boys" - South of Prague. It's not that difficult to find small museums (or dedicated rooms in larger museums) dealing with WW2, some of these are run / taken care of by local enthusiasts, and not bad at all.

Incidentally, the hill behind the museum is the site of the Battle of Vítkov (1420, Hussites under Jan Zizka's command victorious).

/Jonas

Hello Captain A!

Wouldn't a South Korean award rank above an international award (like UN Korea)? Any chance of additional UN service in either UNOGIL (Lebanon) or UNTSO (Palestine)? Coming to think of it, I once met a Swede who served in the Swedish battalion in UNFICYP (Cyprus), and who later served as a sniper with USMC in Vietnam who wore his UN award with the UNOGIL/UNTSO ribbon instead of the UNFICYP ribbon, maybe it's the official US style of indicating UN service (bar Korea) - a general issue UN ribbon? On the other hand where would a state award end up on a ribbon bar, and would they be visible in federal service records? Just some thoughts...

/Jonas