Thomas W

For comparison, here's the shoulder strap of the Pionier-Versuchs-Kompagnie.

Hello folks!

The V looks like the V upon the oval sleeve badge of the "Versuchs- oder Übungsflugpark". But they had a "Fl P" underneath the V.

There were only two parks: west and east.

I don´t think, it belonged to a pioneer unit. Oval sleeve badges were worn by Telegraph-units and air-force.

Some non-official badges are known, but very rare!

We might know, what the letters are. I think the 1st one is a "F" (Flieger ; Funker ; Feld etc etc).

The 2nd one could be a Q or a G.

A single V like this was also worn by the "Versuchs-Abteilung" of the railway-troops.

Is there anything written on the reverse?

Could you please show the whole photo?

A very interesting badge!!!!!!

Hi, Andy.

I haven't yet received the card in the mail. As soon as I get it, I'll see if there's anything on the back.

It's definitely a "V," because it matches the "V" on the shoulder strap of the Pionier-Versuchs-Kompagnie.

It looks to be a signals badge, although what this one is I have no idea.

Is it "FQ" underneath?

I can't tell. This is the highest resolution image I have. I thought it might be "TG" or "JG."

Can anybody identify this sleeve badge? Thanks...

HOW THE BLOODY HELL DO I EDIT THE MISSPELLED TOPIC TITLE?

I recently bought an exceptionally clear period copy of the well-known image of Ottoman shock troops being inspected on the Palestine front. I was surprised to see that the sleeve badge--rendered in red and white in artists' reconstructions--actually has tassels attached to the bottom edge. They appear to be different colors for different soldiers. All the soldiers in the photo have these tassels. Are they indications of rank?

I think I have a (very serious) problem.

Every time I look at this totenkopf pennant, I think of Cherie Blair.

Or Joe Biden.

Part 4.

Part 3.

Part 2.

Coincidentally, I have a postcard sent by Pionier Gilson to Pionier Veller.

Part 1.

I wonder how Army Fitness compared then to now?

That's a really interesting, controversial subject.

I got into a huge flame war on another military Web site by suggesting that so many physically fit young men were killed in World War I and World War II before they could marry and have children that it may have changed the genetic makeup of Europe. That infuriated almost everyone there. Of course I didn't say it to be insulting.

The reason I thought about it is that German flamethrower operators in World War I wore 70-lb flamethrowers into combat. I have photos of flamethrower operators running beside lightly equipped shock troops, and it appears that the flamethrower guys are keeping up without any problem.

What if a 70-lb load was easier for the average man to carry in 1916 than it is for today's men? I read that there's nobody alive today who can use a genuine English longbow. English archers were trained from childhood to use the weapon, and they developed massively strong upper bodies.

But what if there's a genetic component involved? What if the prime physical specimens were killed in both world wars before they could pass along their genes, and that's the real reason there's nobody alive today who can manage an English longbow? Giraffes and elephants are much smaller today than they were at the turn of the century, because the largest ones were killed by trophy hunters.

Let the flame war begin!

Wish I knew more about this photo. I found it on Imageshack. It's a genuine Wex flamethrower, but the uniform has lots of anomalies. No Garde Litzen on the collar, and the cuffs are wrong for the M.1915 Bluse. The sleeve badge is in the Sturmbataillon No. 5 (Rohr) position; I can't tell if the badge is the right pattern or not. The trousers appear to be riding breeches, and the boots don't look German.

The caption in the upper right says Piave front, 1917, assault pioneer of Garde-Fusilier-Regiment.

Museum mannequin? Private collection? Who knows?

While it is possible that insignia could have been created due to this order, given the late date and the state of the German army at this time (in retreat in many areas), it seems unlikely that such insignia would have been created. The Germans were having trouble carrying out uniform changes that were mandated in 1918. The likelihood that un-mandated ones were being pursued, is even less.

I'm sure that the flamethrower platoons mandated in late September of 1918 didn't have any official badges. But it's entirely possible that some men--who were trained by the Death's Head Pioneers of the Garde-Reserve-Pionier-Regiment--scrounged up skull-and-crossbones badges on their own.

The Austrian assault battalions were trained by Sturmbataillon Nr. 5 (Rohr); the Austrians were impressed by the death's-head sleeve badge worn by Rohr's flamethrower troops and adopted the skull-and-crossbones for many of their assault formations.

It's possible that some line pioneers trained by the Death's Head Pioneers liked the badge and bought locally manufactured skull-and-crossbones insignia, cut them crudely out of cloth, or had metal versions sent from home. That would only take a few days.

Closer view of the sleeve "badge":

I wonder if .................... ????

Guess what? Your idea made me go over a photo I have of line pioneers posing with flamethrowers in late 1918. It's a group photo of about a company, so the image of each man is tiny.

Look what I found on the left sleeve of one man holding a flamethrower igniter:

Both the collar and the cuffs on this tunic have been reworked. Was it done during the period? Anybody's guess. The "Zacher" and red "Wien" ink stamps are postwar markings (the Zacher name is related to the theater business). The buttons are replaced. A tunic from this period should have nickel or painted steel buttons for a pioneer. I think this tunic started life as something other than a pioneer. It could very well be a total put-together.

Chip

War Ministry Order No. 1672. 18. G. A6, dated September 28, 1918, decreed that all pioneer companies on the western front form a flamethrower platoon for antitank warfare. Each would be armed with six small flamethrowers.

It could be that some of these platoons used death's-head insignia in imitation of the flamethrower regiment.

In the colour photo, the cloth used for the cuff, and the sleeve appear to be different colours. The piping appears to be unevenly applied. Together, these two issues suggest the original cuff was removed at some time, and altered or reworked. This is typical of many costume house pieces that have been altered for movie use, and later "restored." Consequently, I be leery of trusting the sleeve badge all that much.

That's why I collect only period photos. I can always tell what's real.

Tom.

I just found this from my files .............. looks a bit similar.

The cuff on your photo appears to be of the pioneers, while the man in the photo I posted is infantry.

A lot of divisional shock detachments included both infantry and pioneers who wore the same unofficial insignia...

Brothers ?????

No idea. That's why I prefer collecting photos. You know which era they're from, generally which country, and often which unit.

Here's one I wish I'd bought. It went on auction back when I was collecting only flamethrower photos, so I passed on it. There seems to be an endless number of unofficial shock-troop badges.

Flamethrower in action at 8.46 here ...............

I have a pen-pal who's a recently retired major in the Russian army. He worked in the chemical-warfare branch, so he's very knowledgeable about Russian flamethrowers. I contacted him through his Web site when I was researching my last book.

He's a great guy, but when the topic turns to Germany, he becomes one of the scariest, most extremist people on the planet. His approach is "Nuke them all and let God sort them out." His father and father-in-law both fought in the Great Patriotic War. The memories of what the Nazis did to Russia are still very fresh.

......... while the 'jawless' variation reminds me of the busby skull.

I think so, too.

Here's a slightly bigger scan of the badge, together with the two standard badges Robin posted before.

You can see that there's no "chin" below the white line of teeth at the bottom of the skull on the left. Too bad the quality of the photo isn't better.