PJS

Hi Stewy

How good is that...tracking down the Westwall document. To me this is what collecting is all about. I used to just save my money, buy an item and as soon as I got it in the mail, have a quick look then put it in the display cabinet with the rest of like items. I want say I was unhappy with that but it was all about money and the more you had the bigger and better your collection got. I read a thread by Chris Boonziaier (sorry Chris if I spelt that wrong) on another forum and it was he who got me thinking about collecting and what it means to me. Chris as you may know collects WW1 documents mainly and I was fascinated by what he could work out just from this simple piece of paper. Anyway, thats how I started. I dont have many but these days documents are about all I buy. Great to talk to you and again real nice duo that and I would like to see the Pz Gren grouping you have.

Phil

Hi Phil,i'm getting more into the reasearching now. I've got several groupings that i really need to get to grips with. Another thing with docs & soldbuchs etc,i always keep my eyes open for additions to each soldier. I try to reunite them if possible. A Panzer grenadier group i have,i've actually tracked down his Westwall doc. Hopefully they can be back together soon. Stewy

Nice document and badge stewy. What do you do with them from here?? In that I mean do you research into the unit the winner of the document belonged to and the signature of the commander on the document. I think it makes collecting documents that much better when you look into the history of the document. Heaven forbid I love and do collect German medals and badges but they cant tell you much because they do not have the recipients name engraved on them or anything like that. Documents on the other hand can lead you into all sorts of research and at the end of the day when you finally have the units history all mapped out leading up to the awarding of the badge, then that to me is what military collecting is all about. Sorry Stewy I am ranting on a bit....nice duo as I said.

Phil

Ok guys here is one I would like your opinions on. I am in a position to buy this but thought I would get a second opinion. These are the only pics I have...any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks guys certainly food for thought. I have been collecting TR badges and other items since about 95 and yes I have been burnt more than once but fortunatly not on anything expensive. Still leaves a sour taste in your mouth though. I guess during that time I have learnt a bit and can most times spot a fake IAB, PAB etc but this Imperial stuff is new to me. I have acquired a nice MVK 3rd class with swords in the case and also the same in second class but again I dont really know what I am looking for yet hence my question about a reference work. A question to you Beau is would you name the dealer who sells the fakes Bavarian MVK's only so as I avoid that person. Can do it in a personal message if you like. Speaking of fake MVK's it was only today whilst searching ebay (I dont normally buy from that source) a spotted a fake MVK 1st class being sold right here in Australia. The only reason I spotted it is that the swords did not look to be in the correct position so I had a closer look and noticed that the symbol on the front of the medal (I think it is an L) was also on the reverse instead of the lion. Now I am only a beginner here but that isnt supposed to be is it?

Many thanks guys I think I will do a bit of posting on this forum before buying.

Phil

Australia

Hi,

I have been a keen collector of Third Reich medals and badges for quite some years but recently started to collect a few Imperial items. To be honest I am sick of the cries "this is a fake" and "that is a fake" with third reich items (I have no doubt some are but some are most certainly not) and for me it has tainted the hobby somewhat. Anyway, I am very keen on Bavarian medals and have started to buy a couple and I would like to know from you guys in the know, are there many Imperial fakes out there. I realise EK's are faked across the board and some Prussian high end medals but does anyone know of fake Bavarian or Saxony medals. Also is their a single good reference book which could be recommended to me. Thanks in advance.

Phil :cheers:

I agree..nice piece plenty of history attached to this one. Well worn and absolutely authentic in my view.

Thanks Christophe...nice to put a name to a face. Have a good day

Phil

An extremely nice postcard Christophe.....very nice indeed.

Phil

Hi Christophe

That is really amazing. You dont happen to have a name for this chap do you and/or what regiment he was attached to. I also have the portrait pic that you have shown. I purchased the set of three from a dealer in Germany. Thankyou so much for sharing those pictures with me.

Phil

Well you learn something everyday and I will certainly take your word for it Sas......thanks very much...really appreciate it.

Phil

Can anybody tell me what the third medal is on this chaps medal bar? I have been told that it is a Prussian Landwehr service medal 1913 but I thought they were on a royal blue ribbon and this medal is not attached to a royal blue ribbon. It could be a landwehr service medal but from which state. Any help will be appreciated.

Phil

Hi David,

I like them...very much actually. Every time I see early 57 badges like these I grow more fond of them. I only have a couple myself but am always looking for the odd goodun to come along. All a matter of limited money I am afraid. Anyway...I think they are really nice.

Phil

Looks ok to me but hard to tell for sure with the pictures supplied.

Thanks for the link Prosper and I agree it looks very similar if not the same in outline but the picture is way to pixilated to see any detail and of course there is no pic of the rear of the badge.....makes sense since you are not buying an original. Nevertheless, one must ask one self when they cast this repro badge as shown what did they use as a model to go by. Perhaps they used an original badge fior the mold perhaps not but as I said and I will stick by that....if the dealer will refund take a chance in life. Hell we were told never to buy flat backed panzer badges not that long ago. Adios amigo

Phil

Thankyou for that info.....I have always wondered why some badges have the makers mark and some dont even thought they are obviously one and the same maker. I too have heard that story about LDO outlets selling the badges with makers marks and the ones without were presented to the recipients but like a lot of theories it is full of holes. I knew the early Junckers aluminium para badges were marked then they make runs without marks.....very strange but I guess some mind far greater than mine will come up with a reason. Whether its the truth is another matter entirely.

Cheers for the info.

Phil

Hi,

Prosper dont like it.....I would take a chance on it providing I had iron clad assurance of a refund if I didnt like it when I had it in my hand.

Phil

Prosper,

I am curious...you say no zink Heer Para badges bore the Junckers marks (originals anyway) and yet they obviously put their mark on some of the aluminium ones. If you are correct on production figures, they didnt put their mark on about 2000 zincs ones. I wonder why that was but then I suppose the same question applies to all Third Reich badges.

Phil

I am afraid that Hamburg dealers are hardly the yardstick by which one should judge originality, Phil. This badge does not conform in a number of ways to any known originals I have seen. The hinge is worrying but the Wehrmachtadler's head is even more troublng. I hope Vince did not pay too much for it. There again, as an object to dress a tunic mannequin, it is perfectly OK. Vince, didn't we do business before once? Were you not the guy who responded to some ads of mine, agreed a sale and then evaporated? Or am I confusing you with someone else?

PK

Hello Prosper

God I havent spoken to you in a long long time. A lot has happened since we last talked and yes I am still one of the few guys around who likes to think that too much bulls... goes on in this hobby. Where will it all end when good badges are binned because a grain of dirt or sand got caught in the die and shows up as a small dot on the otherwise perfect stamping. Personally I am well nigh sick of it all but again I keep coming back to these forums although very few others. In answer to your question I agree you cannot take any dealer as a yardstick (I have seen your postings elsewhere regarding certain Hamurg dealers) but not all they sell are fakes. At least this one and others do make refunds if you are not satisfied. Anyway good to talk to you again.

Vince I still think it is probably ok but I would love to see a few pics close up of the interior edges and check those dimensions against other examples as cast copies are smaller.

Phil

Hi,

I note no one is rushing in on this one and I can only guess why but I thought I would throw my two pence in for what its worth... (two pence I guess).

I belong to the side of badge collecting that feels very strongly that too much paranoia is going around the collecting community at the moment and many good badges are getting binned by persons who suffer greatly from this problem or persons who have no idea at all but like to make a name for themselves and repeat what somebody else said. Now..... having said that I would like to think this badge is genuine and if it is its a real nice badge but I see things I dont like in it. Do you have this badge at the moment? I would like to see the edges of the badge because I have yet to see a fake Heer flak badge that has not been cast. So if you have it check the edges for signs of bad molding and check the dimensions against the dimensions of known examples. I dont go much on wieght but that is just me. If you are thinking about purchasing it from where ever then obtain a return if not satisfied guarantee and take a risk.

Well thats my two pence worth. Sorry I cant be more helpful.

Phil

Reverse

Hi,

I am inclined to think this badge is ok....cant give a reason but I just think it is. I would prefer to judge it with it in my hand but of course that cant happen. Have a look at this one which I think is the same.

Phil

https://www.weitze.net/admin/sessions/rKyy5...88/M79988_1.jpg

https://www.weitze.net/admin/sessions/rKyy5...9988/M79988.jpg