Kris D

Hi Chris,

Just came across this topic.

Anything on Lt.K.Nagel? I recently purchased a 1914 EK1. On the reverse is engraved Lt. K. Nagel 5.7.16

Many thanks

Regards

Kris

Nice collection. Thanks for sharing.

My choice would be Michael Wittman,

Total victories (kills):

- 141 tanks,

- 132 antitank guns

Includes the destruction of between 10 and 11 tanks, 2 anti-tank guns and 13 personnel carriers within a 15 minute period during the Battle of Villers-Bocage on June 13, 1944.

A magninficent collection. Would put many museums to shame.

Thanks for sharing.

Only one negative fact : the ribbon is a modern one... I will search a hold one (as represented or the second model, who is the same than Mecklembourg 2nd class merit cross, combatant model. If someone can help me?)

Hi

Regarding the ribbon try http://www.detlev-niemann.de/en/

Regards

Kris Duzniak

Congratulations, a worthy addition to any collection.

Hi,

Just came across your post. A very nice example, always nice to see the award documents.

Hi,

I'd ask the vendor to email you photo's of the reverse, confirm the core is magnetic and the medal of three part construction. If so I'd go for it but you can never really know until you've got it in your hands.

The document cover closed with a Hungarian translation of the Polish text inside the document cover.

A rough translation of the Hungarian text.

"In the year 1410 the Polish, Lithuanian, Smolensk, Kiev, Czechoslovakia, and Masovia armies united in a common battle against the Knights Templar and won a mighty victory at Grunwald. (more commonly familiar to us as Tannenburg)

In 1945 the Countries National Council leaders decided the Polish people should fight shoulder to shoulder with the Soviet soldiers to a heroic victory against the Prussians. The Poles were determined to fight for their home after centuries old oppression under the feet of Fascism. The freedom loving Soviet Union has been fighting Hitlerism hard for years to rescue the world from fascist barbarism. The third Grunwald will bring welcome peace to fellow countrymen. The Grunwald medal is a symbol of victory over fascism."

Hi,

Here is the version of the award document and translation in my collection.

Translation - Left Hand Side

Part of painting "Grunwald" by Jan Matejko.

In the year 1410 on August 14th. The allied armies of Smolensk, Kijow. Czechoslowak and Morawien, together as one force achieved victory on the battle field of Grunwald over their deadly enemy of Slavic nations ? the Germanic crusaders.

Again, in 1945, the brave Polish soldiers fought shoulder to shoulder with Soviet soldiers, then stood victoriously in the ruins of Berlin.

On all battle fields and on their own Polish soil, the Polish soldiers have been fighting for six years, their eternal enemy.

After so many years of heavy fighting, peace and freedom loving nations, with the great Soviet nation at their head, defeated the Germans, and so saved the world from fascist barbarians.

The second Grunwald brought us freedom, democracy, and the return of our "West Lands" to Poland.

The "Badge of Grunwald" is a symbol of victory over the Germans.

Translation - Right Hand Side

By the order of the day 22 August 1945

The Chief Marshal of the Polish Army in the East;

Is awarding;

The participant in armed battles with the Germans

In the 1939 ? 1945 war.

Lieutenant Lata wladyslaw

S. Kukasza

"Badge of Grunwald"

Szief M.H.P.O.P.

Brzoza

Major

No. 067347

Radom 12th August 1946

Hi David,

I have checked out this man in "The Order of the Virtuti Militari and its cavaliers 1792 - 1992" by Prof Zdzislaw P. Wesolowski.

On page 161 there is the following entry:

Langerman Jerzy, Pulkownik (Colonel), 4th class, 1 Dyw Piechoty (1st Infantry Division), 1831.22.05

There are no other entries for this man. It would appear from his name that he was Polish of German / Dutch and possibly Jewish origin.

Regards

Kris Duzniak

www.polishmedals.co.uk

A scan of the reverse and I guess I should also ask if these are original or repos???

Hi Mark,

You are correct in assuming both badges are Polish.

The navy blue enamelled cross is the regimental badge of the 7^th Legion Infantry Regiment which was located in Chem.

The circular badge with red enamel centre is the regimental badge of the 1^st Cadre Company of Josef Pilsudski.

They both look pretty authentic to me.

Regards

Kris Duzniak

Here's mine for comparison, by C E JUNCKER, BERLIN

Here's mine for comparison, albeit by a different maker - C E Junker of Berlin

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_07_2008/post-4175-1215970873.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_07_2008/post-4175-1215970841.jpg

Try the antiques market in Covent Garden on Mondays. Steven Wheeler of Cecil Court has a stall there. Other stall holders also have medals & various items of militaria.

Enjoy your trip.

excellent collection!!

It is not a cause for quarrelling or apologising, and I do hope nobody has taken offence. It is a chance for all of us to share our thoughts and to try to understand further how to distinguish between the genuine article and a copy.

Quite right. I have taken no offence & hope I have caused none. It would be a very dull world if everyone had the same opinion.

Perhaps, Kris, you can send better pictures of the order plus some measurements (weight, dimensions, etc.) to Prof. Wesolowski and see if he can give you an opinion. Or maybe you can even send him the actual medal. I don't know if he does authentifications like many of the soviet dealers, but I am sure he would be willing to help.

-Alex

Thank you for your suggestions. Pictures & dimensions etc are not a bad idea. I would not be too keen on sending the actual medal the cost of postage insurance & possible customs duties (UK - USA & vice versa) make this impractical.

This is your picture, Kris :

It seems dark and light falls sideways.

And picture of the same order from russian site ( I can't be sure abt originality too ) - just for example of a qualitative picture.

Very nice but look at the file seize, if every picture on my site was that huge it would take forever to load. I have tried to limit the seize of pictures to ensure quick loading times. Regarding the quality of the photo, point taken.

The mention of Gen Władysław Sikorski's posthumous decoration is interesting, had he not so tragically died would he have accepted a decoration from the communists ? I doubt it! Had he lived & been unwise enough to return to post war communist Poland he would have probably shared the fate of many others - a term of imprisonment or worse.

Kris, nice site well done, did you do it yourself ?

Thanks. Yes I did the site myself, about 2 weeks to produce.

ISBN: 83-223-2287-9 I picked it up at the Polish Flea Market in Berlin in the early 90s. Kevin

Many thanks. I'll try & obtain a copy.

This is your Virtuti Militari Third Class.

By the way 57 times awarded only.

All that I have written in the previous post concerns to this award .

On an award on this picture at all not enamel, shines as a varnish. And quality of manufacturing is visible a unaided sight.

Balls on the ends of beams of the different size, the letters "dance", the central medallion on abverse and reverse has an indistinct, indistinct appearance ,ribbon is new and so on...

I'm sorry again Kris but this order is 100% fake or copy.

Thanks for your thoughts. I have examined the medal with a 20x jewllers loupe, it's enamel. The ball finials are of uniform dimensions. Have you a picture of one you consider genuine that you could post for comparison? I think unless you have seen a genuine piece it's pretty difficult to be 100% certain.

Very interesting, is the book still available ? Could you post the ISBN No., I might be interested in tracking down a copy.

Lady and Gents !

Do you know that, for example ,Order of Grunvald 1st class was awarded 59 times only!

There are a few people who just SAW original ! I never saw.All that huge quantity of these order which is on sale now - modern copies.

I cannot even imagine how many one such award can cost. 200 000 euro? 400 000 ?

Kris,how many you paid for yours? I am sorry for a tactless question. I don't remember in my collection's life this order in sale.It made from real gold in Mondvor after WW2 and awarded people were high ranked generals and first persons of the countries.

This is your picture, Kris :

It seems dark and light falls sideways.

And picture of the same order from russian site ( I can't be sure abt originality too ) - just for example of a qualitative picture.

Prof Z Wesolowski states in his book, "Polish Orders, Medals, Badges & Insignia Military & Civilian Decorations 1705-1985", the following figures Order of Grunwald 1st Class - 88 awards, 2nd Class - 370 awards, 3rd Class - 7,772 awards.

A final thought, you say you have never seen an original, then how can you be certain that the medals are fake?

It might be helpful if those suggesting that some of Kris's items are fake would explain WHY they have come to that conclusion.... what do you see that looks amiss? It could be instructive for all of us to know what sort of things to look for when assessing a piece.

I agree, these comments / opinions would be of more value if substantiated by specific reasons.