Jaybo

Gentlemen,

What was the rule (assuming that there was one) concerning the precedence of EK 2's with other valor medals? I always thought that the Iron Cross took precedence over other medals but I have seen groups where a Bavarian soldaten's group had the MVK 3rd class BEFORE the EK 2. Was that a parochial thing that was common or was it just mounted improperly? Thanks.

Jay

Hi Chris,

Thanks.

Jay

Hello gentlemen,

Is anyone an 'experten' on German WW I death cards? My question, is the depiction of an Iron Cross on the deathcard indicative of the deceased having been awarded one or is just 'window dressing'? Many thanks in advance.

Jaybo

Hello Jay,

I haven't posted in this thread in a long time.

Here is an update to my collection.

http://www.jeanlannes.com/collection-americana

thanks,

barry

Hello Barry,

Wow! That is an outstanding collection. Is that a portrait of Mme. Lannes? The LOH looks like mine...a type III ?

All the best,

Jay

Lannes

Bear,

Now that makes me drool......well, almost. That is truly spectacular.

Jay

last one...

Very cool documents, Bear. I have been thinking of acquiring letters of a Marshal or two (not much wall space left per the wife's instructions!). I tried sevral years ago to purchase a letter by Colonel d'Hery of the 5eme Hussards but was beaten to the punch. I used to subscribe to Jean-Marc Agotani's catalogues for several years. He has quite the inventory (he must have an 'in' at Vincennes!). He is located in Marseille and unfortunately doesn't have a website. Other than him, I wouldn't know where to begin.

Happy New Year

Jay

Dear Friends,

with this "imperial quartet", I would like to send my warmest wishes for a merry Christmas and a happy New Year!

Elmar Lang

Merry Christmas Elmar. An absolutely superb group!

Jaybo

Hello Jaybo,

Jerome led me to this site.

The books to research are the 5 volumes of the "Fastes de la Legion d'Honneur", by Li?vyns - all conveniently readable online on Gallica (courtesy of the Biblioth?que Nationale de France) :

http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k39276j

thanks,

barry

Thanks Barry. I'll give it a try.

Jay

Jaybo

Original archives of the Order were destroyed in 1871 when the Paris Commune uprising burned the Chancery of the Legion of honor.

Individual records of an Napoleonic Armies officer can be found at the Service Historique de l'Armée at Vincennes, near Paris. If he received the Legion of honor, this should appear on his records. You would have to know his name and given name.

If this recipient was not an officer, then you would have to know where he was born or where he lived at the time of his conscription. The local archives (Archives départementales) would hopefully have his records.

You can also go on the website Leonore maintained by the Chancery of the Legion of honor. A number of past awards are being gradually found and added. But it remains very incomplete.

I am not aware of professionnally organised research in this field, although Family History researchers do exist.

Hope this helps. Good luck !.

Veteran

Merci beaucoup, veteran. This is a start.

Jay

Hello,

Do any of you gentlemen know if there is any professional French research resource that could establish the history of a given Napoleonic Wars LOH recepient from a given regiment?

Jaybo

Hello,

Do any of you gentlemen know if there is any professional research resource in France that has the ability to document the history of a given Napoleonic Wars Legion d'honneur recepient from a specific regiment?

Jaybo

Hi Josef

Yes I got it there some time ago, was a bit surprised how cheaply it went for. The Wundenberg medal is even nicer, he wrote a memoir about his experiences;

Fought for in the Prussian Army at Jena in 1806, fought in the Westphalian Army with the French Army during the invasion and subsequent retreat from Moscow in 1812. Fought in the Hanoverian Army with the British against the French during the Waterloo campaign in 1815!

MAJOR HEINRICH WUNDENBERG

Born Bockenem - Principality of Hildesheim 8th Sept 1788

Died Hildesheim 12th Nov 1870 aged 82

Jan 1806 conscripted into Prussian Guard aged 17.

Part of Corps of Prince Hohenlohe at battle of Jena Oct 1806 where he was wounded. He was captured at Prenzlau but escaped with two other soldiers.

1807- joined Westphalian Grenadier Guards - promoted Corporal and then Sergeant.

1809 - Transferred to 8th Infantry of Line forming at Hildesheim as NCO Instructor

1810 - Transferred to 1st Battalion Light Infantry Regiment (chasseurs) being formed at Paderborn

1811 - Promoted Lieutenant by vote of Officers of Corps

1812 - Regiment part of 8th Westphalian Army corps under Jerome, King of Westphalia that forms part of Napoleons Grand Armee invading Russia.

Takes part in Battles of Smolensk and Borodino as well as smaller affairs. Shot in chest at Battle of Borodino but fortunately saved by his greatcoat which was worn rolled and slung, therefore only badly bruised.

While the Westphalian Corps was left in the locality of Borodino, 1st and 2nd Light Battalions were assigned to the advanced guard which entered Moscow.

During the subsequent retreat from Moscow Wundenberg, along with 1 Captain and 60 Men were assigned to convoying the Ammunition Wagons when they were attacked and captured by 5/600 Cossacks. Wundenberg alone escapes -the rest of the prisoners die in captivity. He rejoins his Regiment and after much hardship what is left of the Grande Armee reaches the Berezina. Wundenberg is one of the few men to cross the river and is one of only 7 from his Regiment. The retreat continues and by the time they reach Prussian soil Wundenberg suffers a nervous breakdown at Posen, he is one of the lucky ones as the retreat as such is over but casualties have been terrible - especially those of the Westphalian’s. Out of 824 men of the 1st Westphalian Chasseurs who marched to Russia, only 6 returned. Out of the 27,000 Westphalian Contingent only 110 were to return at the end of November 1812!

1813 - Transferred to Grenadier Guards at Kassel, unit remains at Kassel during expedition against Saxon Army and therefore avoids having to fight them (much to Wundenberg’s relief)

1814 - Joines Hanoverian Army as Senior Lieutenant of Landwher Battalion Hildesheim (3rd Company).

July 1814 marches to Antwerp.

1815 - Landwher Battalion Hildesheim forms part of General Campbell’s Division of Wellington’s Army at Quatre Bras and Waterloo and capture of Paris.

1816 - Arrives back in Hildsheim in January and appointed Staff Captain.- all this accomplished by the age of 27!- Takes lessons in Mathematics, Arithmetic, Geometry and plan drawing.

1823 - Officer in charge of geometric surveying and praised by the Commission for his work.

1828 - Appointed Company CO, 6th Infantry at Stadt.

1836 - Gets Pneumonia - retires from Military with Rank of Major.

1839 - Appointed Manager of Post Office at Goslar.

1847 - Retires

Wrote Memoir ‘ My Military Experiences 1806 - 1816’ sept 1867 from which most of the above is extracted. This memoir is 29 pages long and contains much on the horrors of the 1812 campaign and to a lesser degree the Waterloo Campaign.

Mossop

Hello Mossop,

Those pieces are truly wonderful. I am very jealous. I love to read about the man behind the medal, especially concerning this period of history. Do you know anything about the history of Herr Flech? Well done!

Jaybo

Hello,

Does anyone know the story behind the Austrian troops attaching oak leaves to their head gear during the 18th century and the Napoleonic wars? I have always been curious as to the when and why as this symbol. Maybe a query for Rick Reasearch! Thanks gentlemen.

Jaybo

Reverse.

Hello Wild Card,

Thanks for your reply. I do have an example of the Silver Military Merit Medal of the Order of St. Henry. Alas, it is of the Wilhelmine period, not 1815.

All the best,

Jaybo

seems like an extremely plausible explanation...

i'm surprised he survived 5.5 years...

joe, MD

Gentlemen,

Mr. Blair's article seems like a fair telling of the 'facts' as we know them to be. I was present at the old NSA convention in Memphis years ago when the late Mr. Weider's findings and theory were announced to the world with the media in abundance. I for one, who have read the two principle works on the 'poisoning' of Napoleon, never believed in it. Why? Human nature. As Mr. Blair points out for the reasons he states, it made NO sense that the Comte de Montholon would not have, 'spilled the beans' as he put it, when he was later down on his luck if he was in fact the culprit. As an assistant prosecuting attorney for over 26 years, I have become a little familiar with the criminal mind and human nature. Montholon's subsequent problems would have forced him to squeeze the Bourbons. It didn't happen. Secondly, the scientific evidence seems to cut both ways according to the various sources. You can make it fit if you want to.

Mr. Weider, may God rest his soul, was undoubtedly responsible for alot of good in the Napoleonic community. His championing the Swedish dentist's theory of the intentional arsenic poisoning of the Emperor was not his high point in my opinion.

Jaybo

Helo!

AMAZING.

All the best

Nesredep

Hello Colin,

Truly outstanding work. They are of my favorite period as well. Oils or acrylics??

Jaybo

Barry,

Check out this (google e-)book which is on-line at

http://books.google.com/books?id=MZAYAAAAM...fox-a#PPA275,M1

Then go to page 275. Lo and beholdeth there, a list of the 5e. Cuir engagements during the 1809 campaign.

Les

Hi Bear,

That is indeed a lovely find. Your French sounds about like mine. If you ever get it fully translated, I would love a peek. I checked in Digby Smith's "Napoleon's Regiments" and did not find anything of note re your guy. You need an in with a researcher at Vincennes!

All the best,

Jaybo

Any info on the 'Medal for the Lower Austrian Mobilization 1797.'

Were they given to Austrians that fought at Rivoli/Italy.

or

The Austrians who fought at the Battle of Neuwied in Austria/Germany.

thanks,

barry

Gentleman,

This is an excellent thread on a subject that is near and dear to my heart, namely the Napoleonic Era. Wild Card, that is a superb collection. You have some pieces that I have always wanted for my collection but either have been unable to locate them or have been outbid (by you, perhaps?!). Could you give us a listing of the literature that you find essesntial in this field of collecting? I assume that Nieman's book is one of them. Some of the pieces I wasn't aware of existing. There is not a general "Medals of the Napoleonic Era" book available to my knowledge. The Westphalian piece illustrates this point. Amazing! I did not know that it existed. I agree with one of the posters, there are probably some if not many buried for posterity in Russia.

Wild Card, if it isn't too much to ask, could you give us some hints as to where you find these pieces? Finally, I too would like to have Bear's question answered re the Austrian 1797 Medal though I think that I read it on the web somewhere.

Jaybo

P.S.- I always found it curious that the Kingdom of Saxony did not apparently issue any medals for these wars to my knowledge. Perhaps because that good old fat king was such a staunch ally of Napoleon!

Fantastic collection, and I agree whit the rest. Probably the best display I have ever seen !

Thanks for sharing !

Kjell

That is truly an awesome collection. I can almost smell the mothballs! It remindss me of my trips to the Western front, in particular our visiting the South African Museum at Delville Wood. It is only surpassed by two museums in the Somme region. Thnks for sharing.

Jay

Jay - Besides my interest in militaria, I have been studying my famly history too. WWI Registration info is available on Ancestry.com. A subscription is needed to get the info, but I'd gladly search the site for anyone who is interested in a specific soldier. It's not always guaranteed but it's worth a try...

Hello Brian,

Thanks for your assistance. I'll send you the man's name that I am researching via an e-mail and maybe you can help me out.

All the best,

Jay :D

Hey Guys,

Our local group, the Michigan Company of Military Historians & Collectors was fortunate enough to have Tex speak at our annual 'Open Mess' here in Grand Rapids back in November, 2003 (check out our webpage). Tex truly was an American hero as were all the AVG 'Tigers'. As Commandant that year I had the privilege of sitting next to Col. Hill at dinner. He really had some great tales to tell.

Blue skies Tex!

Jay Stone

both pages...

Hi Brian,

How in the world do you have access to that info? That is very impressive.

Jay

There were, of course, no standard designs for these. Enterprising local manufacturers created and then filled the "market". I'm not sure any thought was given as to what the families were supposed to do with these cumbersome things.

Any frame -- then or now -- would just be an "after-marfet" affectation.

Hello Ed,

Thanks for the insight.

Jaybo

Hello Jaybo,

I have one plaque with frame which has a very fancy design (in my opinion) compared to the plain round frames. I don't think they're being made today but if they were it wouldn't surprise me. I have seen modern cases, resembling a kind of coin or medal case, made to fit plaques.

Tony

Hello Tony,

Thanks for your reply. Yes, I have seen the modern frame type to which you have referred. I'm looking for the older plain wooden round type. My example is, alas, sans medals but it is for a Tyne Cot casualty. My best friend and I were fortunate enough to visit his inscription there last September.

All the best,

Jaybo

i LOVE the MC (of course the fact the A) one was won in my family and B) i own one has NOTHING to do with it!! )

but i do thing the design of it is so elegant!!

I agree with Paddywhack. The MC is one marvelous looking decoration. One of the very best along with the LOH (French) and the Order of St. George (Russian) amongst many others.