Roman Slivin

LtdR Kratz

I think you are correct.

But you know Research Gnomes-- we like to eliminate all the suspects down to only 1 !

Then I doubt that that it Kratz. :cheeky:

I think that it Kratz. :unsure:

OK. Having been sent the description of this date bar from the huge (and insanely expensive) Nimmergut multi-volume set on German awards:

1) This "23.1.1916" bar was awarded to ONLY <b>29</b> actual living persons <u>all</u> in <b>Hessian Infantry Regiment 118 </b>(others went on the unit's flags). This date was the 125th jubilee of the regiment's creation.

Three non commissioned officers, named by Nimmergut, received this as the sole enlisted recipients of the bar. 26 officers (not named) received the bar.

A regimental history of IR 118 would--hopefully--contain the names of ALL the recipients, for a process of elimination to identify the owner.

That being said, the bar does not match the example shown by Nimmergut-- yours is too LONG, and appears to have been affixed to the medal bar with little nails or something.

This is where it gets TRICKY.

With so FEW made, and no "benchmark" for what is and is not the 1916 issued model-- would we have any reason to think that a recipient alive after 1938 could not--or might even have HAD to-- have a jeweler hand make an example to replace a lost or broken original?

But how to PROVE that? <img src="http://gmic.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/banger.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="banger.gif" />

<!--coloro:#ff0000--><span style="color:#ff0000"><!--/coloro-->The ONLY way would be to find a list of all the recipients and match up this actual group.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->

I like the fact that it appears to be a "cheapo" upgrade, sticking the Hindenburg Cross in without bothering to pay for the correct sized extended metal backing plate.

But the combination is VERY odd.

The pre-war Hessian Merit Medal, and Hessian XV Years Service Cross indicate an NCO-- but the ?M3K indicates an officer.

The ONLY way this combination could be correct is

1) if Hesse continued to award military long service awards DURING the war (as Bavaria and Wurttemberg did)--

I have NO idea whether that was the case or not.

2) this NCO would have had to reach either Feldwebelleutnant or something like Zahlmeister rank to have received the Austrian award, AND

3) could not have had doubled war time totaling "XXV" years of service by discharge in 1920-- so never got the Prussian officers' long service cross.

That is a VERY narrow, very specific, and "easily" eliminated category of recipients

The complete roster of those entitled to this bar is shown in the IR 118 WW1 regimental history.

After all, ANYBODY could have added a dodgy date bar to ANY Hessian General Decoration "for Bravery" at ANY time.

What HAS to be done is to verify all the OTHER awards to determine whether it was even POSSIBLE for any of the recipients to have gotten the date bar on this medal bar. All regular and dR/dL officers can be eliminated immediately!!!!

The three career NCOs who received the date bar can, with certainty, be eliminated as "suspects" since NONE of them could or would have been of officer status by 1918 to have earned that Austrian award.

It HAS to--if not Frankensteined onto an otherwise original bar--have been awarded to an "officer" in the unit, <i>of Warrant or administrative status barely equal to a Leutnant.</i>

Find that regimental histroy!!!! src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/beer.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="beer.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

The full list of the awarded officers:

1. M. Lockemann

2. MaD Deuβen

3. H. Cellmann

4. H. v. Cappeln

5. H. Fendel

6. ObldR R<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--fontc--></span><!--/fontc--><!--fonto:Arial--><span style="font-family:Arial"><!--/fonto--><!--sizeo:2--><span style="font-size:10pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->?cker

7. ObldR Bieber

8. Lt Hoβfeld

9. LtdR Reuling

10. Lt Stein

11. Lt D<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--fontc--></span><!--/fontc--><!--fonto:Arial--><span style="font-family:Arial"><!--/fonto--><!--sizeo:2--><span style="font-size:10pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->?hle

12. Lt M. M<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--fontc--></span><!--/fontc--><!--fonto:Arial--><span style="font-family:Arial"><!--/fonto--><!--sizeo:2--><span style="font-size:10pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->?ller

13. LtdR Heiland

14. LtdR Schmidt

15. Lt R?nnberg

16. LtdR Wennesheimer

17. LtdR Lichtenberger

18. LtdR Jordan

19. LtdR H?pp

20. LtdR Balz

21. LtdR Henn

22. LtdL Lingens

23. LtdR P. Schlamp

24. LtdR <b>Kratz</b> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="cheers.gif" />

25. Oberst M?nter

26. Obstl. Ffeiherr v. Bibra

I was late to order the book?

:(

:cheers:

Many thanks to all for the help!

:catjava:

:catjava:

My friend has bought this award.

But I had doubts in its originality.

I am not right?

Best Regards,

Roman

:cheers:

:cheers:

:cheers:

What it is possible to tell about this medalbar?

Any opinions are welcomed!

Regards,

Roman

Infanterie-Regiment 463

Oberstlt. und Regts.-Kommandeur Laue (24. November 1917)

Major und Batls.-Kommandeur (II.) de Rainville (24. November 1917)

Hauptm. und Batls.-Kommandeur (III.) v. Schmidt (11. Mai 1918)

Leutnant d. R. und Komp.-F?hrer (11.) Iosten (11. Mai 1918)

Leutnant d. R. und Komp.-F?hrer (1.) Grosse (8. Iuli 1918)

@Roman Slivin

Yes it is Erich G?rtner. Do you have some more informations of him

Hello Karsten,

I have some information:

?M3K

V O. b. HGr. Mackensen/Res. IR. 205./preu?. Hptm. d. Ldw. a. D./In Anerkennung tapferen Verhaltens vor dem Feinde

Regards,

Roman

Major G?rtner

Erich G?rtner?

:cheers:

Any opinions are welcomed!

:cheers:

Hi Roman sorry I wasn't trying to be controversial, just to say it's not a completely new thing and has been done before, that is encouraging large families, albeit by a previous and despicable regime. That being said, the last image you posted appears to have different central motifs to the earlier ones, although the images are small, one appears to show the imperial Russian Eagle

best regards

Alex K

There are no problems Alex,

I wished to show to you that the new Russian award continues tradition of an award of St. Olga which has been founded in 1915

:cheers:

Didn't someone do this before!!

Before to do such comparisons, it is necessary to study attentively materials.

The government has instituted financial rewards for parents starting with their second child. The Parental Glory medal comes with an award of 50,000 rubles ($1,630; euro1,150).

The state pays for the second child 300.000 rubles ($9,780).

If in a family 3 children the state will pay to parents of 600.000 roubles ($19,560) etc.

:cheers:

:cheers:

http://www.vesti.ru/videos?vid=215133&...ort=1&cid=1

Order #0001