Mike Dwyer

It's also called a busby in dress regulations for the army, 1891 and 1900 - I don't think there is a more official authority than this!

So, I wasn't as wrong as I thought I was! :rolleyes:

Friedrich Junghans, 03.09.1850-13.06.1907

Retired Sept 1898 as Colonel.

Greetings

Daniel

Daniel,

Thank you very much!

Someone on another forum is trying to find out the complete name of the first commander of the 6. Westpreu?isches Infanterie-Regiment Nr.149 when it was formed in 1897. They apparently have a last name, Junghans, and they're trying to determine if this might be Friedrich Reinhold Junghans. There's a listing in the 1897 Rangliste, but with only the last name of course.

Sorry to pedantic, but it isn't a busby.

You are , of course, absolutely correct, and I knew that when I called it a busby, but I couldn't think of what else to call it. :speechless:

Sweet, very sweet! I love to see things on the forum that have a personal, family, connection.

Love that helmet! :jumping:

Wow! Very nice busby, I like it! :jumping:

Fantastic! Too bad they didn't have color photography back then. I love Henry the Lion!! :jumping:

Very, very nice looking medal!

...

Wonderful photo! Love that shako! :jumping:

Mike - There is Robin in his senior officer's uniform - me, in our old No.1's - and you - with a large drink in your hand..... Shame on you !!!

Please send us one with the full uniform - then we can all say - 'Gee - that's what they wear in the films' !!!

I afraid that's only the old Southern standard, iced tea!

I have some other photos, but I believe they're in a rented storage shed we have because there's just not enough room in our house for all our junk! :rolleyes:

Not a very good photo of me, but right now it's all I can locate! This was taken about 1981 when I was a deputy sheriff in Georgia. I had stopped by to eat supper at my brother-in-law's house where a birthday party was occuring. Luckily, most of my face is obscured!

Mervyn,

My apologies for hijacking your thread, but while looking at the various videos of the Trooping of the Colour, I found this one segment that shows the King's Troop, Royal Horse Artillery from the 2008 ceremony. You had another thread some time ago where someone asked if the RHA was still around. It's about 2 minutes into the film that they appear.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDMnBjoWpi0...feature=related

" - this is what a policeman used to look like.... "

...very intimidating Mervyn

Fantastic photos Mervyn. Post some more. One thing though, if you could educate the ignorant, what is the "Trooping of the Colour" ?

best regards

Thomas

Thomas,

The "Trooping of the Colour" is a very old British military ceremony that since 1748 has been used as the official celebration of the monarch's birthday. It's held on the second Saturday in June.

Here's a short clip from the 2008 Trooping...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnPAj92Wcwk...feature=related

Based on the shoulder straps, I believe those NCO's are from F?silier-Regiment K?nigin Viktoria von Schweden (1. Pommersches) Nr.34. Since the regimental chief was the Queen of Sweden, that increases the chance those medals are Swedish and they are shaped like the Order of the Sword.

So which von Gayl is this one? Is this an older Georg?

# 11 is very nice. It's not very often you see photos from this era showing people smiling or laughing. They all, except the one sour looking fellow in the back, look like they were enjoying themselves!

One of my favorite postcards of Kaiser Wilhelm II shows him in uniform, on horseback, with a cigarette in one hand, and he's laughing at something. It makes him look very human.

Peter's comment re RHA - I mentioned King's troop - but do RHA exist as a separate body nowdays ?

The King's Troop, Royal Horse Artillery was still around on 6 February of this year when this photo was taken in London's Green Park after firing a royal salute marking the anniversary of Her Majesty's accession to the throne.

Hi Guys,

Can anyone enlighten me as to why units, who deploy on OIF, turn to deploy as MPs, even if there unit is something else,like infantry or engineers. Are there any units in the US military that are MPs, or do they just form these type of unit ad hoc?

Can anyone shine any light on this for me?

As to why units are turned into MP units, I can't answer that. The US Army has numerous MP units, but perhaps there aren't enough to go around, so they press others into service.

Many years ago that was standard practice. My father served as an MP in Honolulu, Territory of Hawaii in the early 1930's. He was actually an infantryman, but the MP unit was made up entirely of infantryman who were assigned to temporary duty as MPs.

According to one web site I found the army currently has 7 MP brigades, 4 CID groups, 7 Reserve MP brigades, 1 Reserve MP-POW group and other units. I served as an MP and that's what I was trained to do and my career field was MP. I served in the 988th MP Company for a while and then the 139th MP Company. Later I served as a CID Agent in a CID Field Office which later became a Resident Agency. With all the war footing of today, the CID has changed nearly all of their "offices" back to the older system of numbered MP detachments. For example the old Fort Rucker CID Office, is now the 24th MP Detachment (CID).

As if that's not wild enough................here's a video clip of a Chilean army parade where they're goose-stepping to Preussens Gloria!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gMGiNUSpjU

And another of a Chilean army band straight from the Kaiserreich, including the German march!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idKT3bycxS8...feature=related

Thanks for the details, Les, that's very interesting. My father was East Prussian, and he was very annoyed about this "abolition" of his homeland. He always claimed that the UN Charter was inherently racist, because it provided no provisions for displaced Germans such as himself. I'm referring to the resolution of the right of return of war-displaced refugees. He did not see his homeland again until 1992, shortly before he died.

I've always had a bit of "heartburn" about that too. To place blame for something on a state and then abolish it after subjegating it is a bit racist or anti-whatever-it-should-be-called. It's kind of like the allied propaganda that tried to place ALL of the blame for WW1 on Kaiser Wilhelm, like he started the whole thing personally. There were many, many factors that led to the war, and the allies weren't nearly as blameless as they've always claimed to be, in my opinion.

The HOH is my FIRST FAVORITE order , so I hope that there will be a few more answers in this thread focussing to its exile awards and the showed groups of orders.

I became quickly addicted to the Braunschweig Order of Henry the Lion!!! The Hohenzollern House Order is my second favorite, followed by the Pour le Merite.

Hello Mike,

I must admit I am not fit in complex legal questions. But who is the chivalric community and wich official international organization or wich state cares about the rules of the International Commission on Orders of Chivalry? "Although not recognised by any international treaty, an organisation exists which seeks to provide criteria against which to judge Orders of Chivalry: the International Commission on Orders of Chivalry" one can read in Wikipedia if you search for chivalry orders. There is a point of view like yours, but "A minority of scholars disagree, arguing that a non-reigning claimant to a throne cannot continue an order of chivalry." is also written there. So at least there is a discussion about it in the community. For my opinion, there is a necessary criteria for the legitimation to award orders and decorations: you have to be a head of a state (or a similar orginaziation with international appreciation) with all its power behind. As I stated in the beginning, I am not an expert in law, that is only my humble opinion.

With kind regards, Komtur

Hi, Komtur,

The ICOC is about the only thing we have that has made any real attempt to work out the twisted trail of "legitimate" and "fake" orders. I fully agree that the ICOC has no power or authority. I think the key to your second quote is, "A minority of scholars disagree..." The majority, from what I've read, seem to agree that former ruling houses can still award their personal family orders, since they are family or dynastic orders, not national ones. From this point of view, the HHO is an order of the royal family of Prussia, not from the state of Prussia. I, as I'm sure you can tell, firmly believe in this view of the situation. By chivalric community I mean those who are scholars of orders of chivalry, who study chivlary, and are much more learned than I about these matters.

I apologize if I hijacked your thread, I didn't mean to cause a disturbance, I just felt that the other view of the house order situation needed to be heard. It seems like I see only one side expressed on the forum. I thoroughly enjoyed the photos and the typewritten award document. The crosses you showed are very beautiful, the HHO is my second favorite order.

Yes, Anhalt has pretty much destroyed its reputation in a number of ways. They aren't alone, there are others I know of that will make you a knight, or knight commander, of what I believe to be a legitimate house order, for only a few thousand of your hard earned dollars or Euros or whatever currency you use. But kings have been selling orders and titles since the dawn of time, it goes with the territory.

The awards of the Royal Prussian House Order of Hohenzollern by Wilhelm II continued after 1918 in his Amerongen and Doorn exile. Strictly spoken these were not real awards of orders, because the Ex-Kaiser had no more official right to honour persons with these decorations. But the Kaiser did not care about that, promoted officers and distributed various titles and orders.

Some may disagree with what I'm about to say, but I have to respond. There is a difference between House or Dynastic Orders and National Orders. The chivalric community has long recognized that House Orders belong to that particular house and are not owned by the nation. They are a personal gift of the head of the house. I know nothing about what the German laws were after 1918, they may have outlawed the awarding of such orders by the former Kaiser, but outside Germany that is meaningless. As a House or Dynastic Order the Kaiser had full legal authority to award the Royal Prussian House Order of Hohenzollern, although to do so inside Germany might have violated German law. The current head of the royal house of Prussia, Georg Friedrich Prinz von Preu?en, could award the HHO right now, if he chose to, and it would be considered perfectly legitimate by the international chivalric community. Again, what the national law says may change the situation inside the country, but that has no effect on acts outside the country.

There are many former ruling houses today that still award their house orders for a variety of reasons. Some for good reasons, some simply for monetrary contributions.

The International Commission on Orders of Chivalry (ICOC) has a list, http://www.icocregister.org/emain.htm, of recognized orders. Under Georg Friedrich Ferdinand Prinz von Preu?en they have listed the Hohenzollern House Order, the Order of the Black Eagle, and the Louise Order as Dynastic Orders that he is still the grand master of. It is his decision whether he wishes to award these orders or not.

I saw an article recently where the current Duke of Anhalt is awarding the Order of Albrecht the Bear again, and I believe the Duke of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha has awarded the Saxe-Ernestine House Order a few times also. I know H.I. & R.H. Archduke Karl of Austria (his father, Archduke Otto gave the grandmastership of the order to him a few years ago) still awards the Golden Fleece. The head of the royal house of Bavaria, Prinz Franz, Duke of Bavaria, still awards their house orders of Saint Hubertus, Saint George, and Saint Theresa.

Leigh,

I'm fully with you that standardized uniforms are necessary on a multi-national assignment like the photo you showed. I would be thoroughly confused in that situation.