Mike Dwyer

number 2.

Does that look like it might be a version of one of the Lippe honor crosses, or the merit cross of Waldeck?

I tried to monkey with the photos to see if we could get the decorations any larger and more recognizable, but I'm not sure how much good it did.

I may be wrong, but I believe the bottom cross on the fellow on the right is the sewn-on cloth Ritterkreuz of the Johanniter Order.

Hi Mike,

Good points. I think you are right on these points. It's an interesting subject; for my information, do you know other official orders of royal houses, that are not official order of the government of states?

Cheers.

Ch.

Hi, Christophe,

I know of a few, but there are probably more. Here are the one's I've heard about:

Portugal: The head of the royal house, H.R.H. Dom Duarte, Duke of Bragan?a, still awards the Order of the Immaculate Conception of Vila Vi?osa and the Order of Saint Michael of the Wing. I know a few people who are members of both.

Montenegro: The current head of the princely house, H.R.H. Prince Nikola Petrovic-Njegos, has been awarding the Order of Danilo I.

Duchy of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha: According to the website of the ducal house, the head of the house, H.H. Prince Andreas, has been awarding the Saxe-Ernestine House Order again. See their website at http://www.sachsen-coburg-gotha.de/?Das_He...shaus:Hausorden

Lippe: Not sure which one, just Lippe or Schaumburg-Lippe, but I met a man once who had the House Order of Lippe and he was awarded it sometime in the 1970s or 1980s. That was under the former head of the house who has since passed away, I don't know if the current head is awarding it or not.

Tuscany: The head of the grand ducal house of Tuscany, H.I. & R.H. Prince Sigismondo, Archduke of Austria, is still awarding the Order of Saint Stephen.

Bourbon-Two-Sicilies: The head of the royal house of Bourbon-Two-Sicilies, H.R.H. Prince Ferdinand, Duke of Castro, still awards the Order of Constantinian Saint George, I know some people who are knights of the order. I believe he also still awards the Order of Saint Januarius too, but I'm not positive about that.

Italy: The head of the royal house of Italy, H.R.H. Crown Prince Vittorio Emanuele of Savoy, Prince of Piedmont and Prince of Naples, has been awarding both the Order of Saints Maurice and Lazarus and the Civil Order of Savoy.

Austria: The royal and imperial house still awards the Order of the Golden Fleece, the current head of the house, H.I. & R.H. Archduke Otto transferred the grandmastership of the order to his son, H.I. & R.H. Archduke Karl.

Ethiopia: The Crown Council of Ethiopia, formed by the last emperor, still awards the Order of Solomon?s Seal, the Order of Emperor Menelik II, the Order of the Ethiopian Lion, and the Order of the Star of Ethiopia. Another Ethiopian group, allied to the Crown Prince, also awards these same orders.

Rwanda: I have heard the former king of Rwanda, H.M. King Kigeli V, has been awarding the Order of the Lion of Rwanda.

That's all I personally know of, as I said, there could be others.

Thanks Carol I for the info. Interesting.

But three questions :

1. How do you qualify this un-official order ? Who is supposed to award and receive it ?

Christophe,

A small technical point, but perhaps you mean non-governmental order instead of un-official? If the order belongs to the royal house of Romania, then it is an official order of the royal house, so it can't be un-official. It may no longer be an official order of the government of the country of Romania, but is still an official order of the royal house. There are many royal houses that are no longer ruling their respective countries that still award their house orders, which is perfectly legal and legitimate (as far as the international community goes).

Since it is a order of the royal house, I would presume H.M. King Michael or his designated representative would have to award it.

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all of you!

Claudio,

It looks great to me, but I highly recommend checking with the forumites on http://pickelhaubes.com/forum/index.php

Love the uniform............but that beret needs to go! (I know, I know, he's SAS!) Berets are fine with cammies, but they look terrible with a dress uniform. I wish the US Army would wake up and realize that one of these days.

That is one truly sweeeeeeet mini-chain!!!!!

No, no, no, Kevin, they've got it all wrong........that's an imperial crown on the badge, not the royal Prussian crown, so that's a badge from the Imperial German Poultry Corps which provided chickens to feed the troops! See that's a little chicken in the middle, not an eagle.

I just love that striped shirt he's wearing under his uniform!!!

My mistake! The on-line reference I looked at earlier didn't show a shoulder strap for 4. Th?ringisches Infanterie-Regiment Nr.72, so I wasn't able to find that particular cypher.

Chris,

The only shoulder strap I can find that's anywhere close to photo 1 is for Infanterie-Leibregiment Gro?herzogin (3. Gro?herzoglich Hessisches) Nr.117, although the crown in the photo looks different than the example I'm looking at. The cypher (if that's what that is!) looks the same though.

Hi Tom , What is "UGLE" ?

The United Grand Lodge of England.

http://www.ugle.org.uk/

Yeah, Kevin, my German's terrible, but I was thinking the Wurtt up at the top of the cross stood for W?rttemberg.

So, I'm guessing that he's wearing a Kriegsministerium uniform in that photo because none of the regiments mentioned would have worn the Garde pattern eagle and star on the picklehaube.

He is still Grand Master of the Orden vom Goldenen Vlies and still can bestow it as it is a dynastic order rather than a national order. Nice to know he is still allive and kicking must have his mother's, Zita's, blood has she was well in he 90s when she died.

Paul

Actually, Paul, he gave that up to his son a couple of years ago. Archduke Karl is now the Grand Master of the Order of the Golden Fleece.

I was wondering recently whether Otto was still alive. When the Iron Curtain rusted, there were news reports of traveling back and forth to Hungary (his dad's undoing) and it looked for a brief moment as if some sort of English-style ceremonially neutral monarchy might have been restored to overcome the yawning political divide.

Just think-- if the Allies had not been so implacibly petty about routing out the enemy royals in 1918 to divert domestic rage over the mutual slaughter--

Germany and Austria with kings in the 1930s would have been...

our world would have been VERY different.

Otto MIGHT have made all the difference.

I fully agree, Rick. You know Germany made peace feelers in 1917, but the allies insisted the Kaiser had to go and at the time that was unacceptable to the German authorities. Perhaps if peace had come in 1917 the Kaiser, or if he was forced to abdicate, his son, Willy, would have been on the throne and there would have been no place in the government for a former Bavarian army corporal.

I almost let it slip by, yesterday, 20 November, was the 95th birthday of Archduke Franz Joseph OTTO Robert Maria Anton Karl Max Heinrich Sixtus Xaver Felix Renatus Ludwig Gaetan Pius Ignatius von Habsburg, Crown Prince of Austria, who was six years old when his father, Kaiser Karl of Austria fled the country in 1918. I believe he is the last living immediate family member of a ruling house of a major WW1 power. All of Kaiser Wilhelm II's children are gone, all of Czar Nicholas II's children are gone, and all of King George V's children are gone.

Picture 1 is a Gefreiter (corporal). Picture 2 appears to me to be a private.

In most instances, a name like that means the person (or relative) was adopted. A famous example is GFM Erich von Lewinski gen. von Manstein. His mother's sister, married to a von Manstein was unable to have children. Erich was one of several children in his family, and so before he was born his parents offered him to his aunt and uncle to adopt. Consequently, he was named von Lewinski gen. von Manstein to indicate his "true" while still allowing his adopted name to be used. Over time, von Lewinski seems to have been dropped and historians tend to refer to him simply as von Manstein, though this is not entirely correct.

Andy

Thanks, Andy!

I know this is a bit but when a person has a name like

Karl v. Barton gen. v. Stedman

What does the gen. von xxxx mean? I know von means "of" and is sign of nobility, but I don't understand what the gen. is for.

Hi, Noor,

I can't speak as to your description of the bar, I'm not familiar enough, but I will say that's a very nice looking medal bar! Beautiful!

1) Prussian Iron Cross 1914 2nd Class

2) 1939 War Merit Cross 2nd Class with Xs

3) Baden Order of the Z?hringen Lion-Knight 2nd Class X (for Lieutenants) or Knight 2nd Class with Xs and Oakleaves (For Captains-- but a scarce and little-seen device not stocked by most outfitters)

4) W?rttemberg Friedrich Order-Knight 1st X (for Captains) or Knight 2nd X (for Lieutenants)

5) Austro-Hungarian Military Merit Cross 3rd Class with War Decoration (wreath--their basic "EK2" equivalent)

6) Hindenburg Cross for WW1 Combatants

7) Wehrmacht 18 Years Service Cross (army or navy eagle)

8) Wehrmacht 4 Years Service Medal (same).

Rick,

I'm waaayyy out of my league here, and I know you're the man!, but don't you have 3 and 4 reversed? I thought the Z-Lion was on the green ribbon edged yellow, which is is 4th place on the upper ribbon bar and the W?rttemberg Friedrich Order is in #3. (I think your eyes may have shifted to the lower bar which has the Z-Lion in #2 and the W?rttemberg Friedrich Order in #3.

the "A", is it just below the crown? I guess it would stand for Emperor Alexander, which the regiment carried in it's name, and the roman numeral "III" for the regimental number. .

No, it would stand for the particular czar, not the regimental number. There were two regiments named for two different Czar Alexanders, one was named for Alexander II, the other was named for Alexander III.

Hi Guys,

Can anyone tell me what the ARCOM is issued for?

Can anyone give me any examples of events that lead to ARCOM was awarded?

Is it highly thought of, within the military? One worth having...???

Gordon.

Gordon,

It is basically a "thank you for a job well done" type medal. I don't know about now, but when I was in the army it was often a "going away" medal given to those that were transferring to a new assignment as a reward for all they had done during the years of their current assignment. It was also given for truly outstanding performance on some particular thing like outstanding performance on a particular mission or assignment.

For example, between my two active duty army tours I spent almost 5 years in the Army National Guard. When I left the Guard to go back on active duty for the second time my supervisor asked our commander to nominate me for the ARCOM for my 5 years in the unit. Instead, my commander, who was a very nice guy but not the brightest person I've ever met, wrote the recommendation to cover only what I had done during our last annual training (two weeks active duty). Needless to say, it was downgraded to a Army Achievement Medal (AAM) because the higher ups felt there wasn't enough in the two week period to justify an ARCOM.

I can't really say if it's highly thought of or not. It's a fairly standard award that nearly everyone will get if they stay long enough and do a good job all the time.