Chip

Wow, that's quite an armory!

What period is the lemon squeezer from? I've always wanted a WWI period one, but the time to find those has come and gone. I was lucky enough to find a complete WWI Aussie uniform back in the 1980s.

Chip

Somebody has an egg grenade fetish!

Very nice displays Ed! I'm like Bernhard...I've got the stuff to go in the displays, just nowhere to put them.

Chip

Nice photos! I especially like the matching ascots in the first photo. Must be their "dress" Halstuche.

Chip

That's pretty cool, except for the bird crap on the Werfer. :)

Do you know his rank as a pilot? You might want to try the specialists on the website forum of "The Aerodrome". Here is the URL address. http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/index.php?

Chip

Chris,

As he mentions, the center piece is hand colored (not printed) as the later ones were. It's not uncommon to find really old flags with the artwork done by hand. WWI era flags (for the most part) would have been totally printed.

Chip

Thanks Bill. I have never seen that before. Must be a Brit thing.

Chip

I had no idea trousers like the ones you have are so rare.

Jason,

Thanks for the comments. The really rare ones, in my opinion, are the true feldgrau colored examples that were made from 1907 to 1914. The gray color of Joe's two pairs and my second pair are more commonly seen (though they are rare in their own right).

Chip

Joe,

First, try as I may, I cannot figure out what "IAW" means? I tried to figure it out, but no luck.

You have some nice shoulder straps there. As you know from Kraus, the 63rd got their cypher during the war, after Franz Josef died and Karl became the emperor. It was part of the 12th Division, which used colored strips of cloth across the bottom of the strap to identify the units within the division. IR.63 used a yellow strip.

The difference between private purchase and issue is usually pretty obvious. The main indicators are the materials, style of unit designations, sizes, etc. Private purchase pieces were often backed in a papercloth type material, they often had stiffeners inside (usually papercloth again), button holes were often hand sewn, numbers and cyphers might be embroidered, rather than chain-stitched or fashioned from cord. They often varied in width from regulation, could have non-regulation tongues attached or be hybrids that had features of both the M07s and the M15s. Then there are a few that look very much like issue pieces, but have some subtle differences previously mentioned.

Issue M1907 and M15 straps can vary in width from regulation. M07s are usually very close to the 5.5 cm width, while M15s can go from 5.1 cm to 4.3, with the Bavarian examples being the most off from the regulation 4.5 cm.

I looked through my boxes and I don't have an M15 IR.139 example.

Chip

I agree with all of the above, but I would also include the period plates and publications. I especially use "Deutschlands Armee in feldgrauer Kriegs- und Friedens-Uniform" by von der Osten-Sacken u. von Rhein. It covers the September 1915 uniform regulations both in text and in color plates. I have the very nice reprint that Manion's made back in the 1970s. For the M07/10 uniforms, I also use the reprinted set of plates "Die grauen Felduniformen der Deutschen Armee 1914" done by Arthur Schmidt, originally printed by Moritz Ruhl and reprinted in 1984 by Ulf-J.Friese and Uwe Lacina. It's indispensable. Of course there are other period plate books that have been reproduced, but I don't find the other Moritz Ruhl books to be that informative.

I have to mention Paul Pietsch and his two volume set "Formations- und Uniformierungsgeschichte des preußischen Heeres 1808-1914". This is one of the foundations upon which Kraus built his work. The section on the 1907 uniforms is brief in comparison to the rest of the prewar coverage, but much of the gear that was still in use in 1914 is described. Pietsch was also heavily involved in the reprinted expansion of the 1930's three volume set "Das Deutsche Heer" (released in 1984). Finally, I would also recommend "Führer durch Heer und Flötte 1914" by B.Freidag, reprinted by J.Olmes in 1974. Though it has no pictures, it describes the M07 field uniforms for the entire army, branch by branch and state by state. There's really not one book that does it all, so a well rounded library is key to having the multiple sources one often needs to track down answers.

Chip

I have that book. It's a nice one. The two volume Kraus set (now expanded to three volumes) is a much superior publication for detailed information. His book on the WWI collections of the Bavarian Army Museum and Heeresgeschichtliches Museum is more or less a picture book, though I do refer to it occasionally, to see actual type pieces.

Chip

The second is not in as good shape but has mysterious markings that I can't decipher (something something 3rd Garniture?)--Anyone have any guesses?

Joe,

The mark on the right appears to be "8.P.1.", which I would assume means 8.Pionier, 1.Komp.. The larger mark on the left looks postwar to me. So, it's possible these were reissued.

Are both of your pairs red piped?

Chip

Chris,

These are not all of the patterns, but the ones you have shown are (l-r),

M15, simplified M07, M16 and prewar overcoat pattern for the old blue/black coat.

Chris,

I'm sure he doesn't have anything to trade at the moment, but I will let him know.

Chip

Chris,

It is a gabardine type wool, which is unusual for an issue tunic. I just noticed for the first time that it appears to have the remnants of Landsturm infantry shoulder straps sewn into the shoulder seam. So, it looks like it was used as a Landsturm tunic.

Chip

That's a nice 37mm Maxim. I'm always intrigued by those large rounds in a cloth feed belt.

Chip

He's everywhere, he's everywhere!

I've only seen one from the regiment in the flesh and it was the very late Bluse with the collar patches, metal "S's" and Bavarian blue/white Rautenborte. Still, very cool. Photos of regimental members in Blusen are quite scarce.

Chip

Depends on what your jacket is. Do we know for sure yet?

By the way, what is "bog standard"?

Chip

Chris,

Supposedly, before the enlisted visored caps were authorized in 1915, these were worn on the Feldmütze as Unteroffizier Kokarden. I doubt the veracity of that. I have a mint Hessian cap that was issued with a sewn-on national cockade and a split brad Hessian version. I think as the sewn-on ones got pulled off, the split brad ones were just easier to replace (no sewing required). Also, I think that caps that show up in collector's hands without cockades often just get the split brad type as replacements, as they are easier to find and attach. Getting the correct old thread (thickness and no glow cotton) is also no easy task.

Chip

Joe,

That's a super looking tunic. I have a similar Bavarian issue FAR tunic dated 1915. It too looks like it was never worn.

Too bad I didn't know you had this tunic. I just recently sold a pioneer Mütze marked to B.A.II to Advanced Guard Militaria.

can anyone explain why this tunic has red piping on the collar and on the cuffs? Any why Swedish cuffs?

I read that the Bavarians adopted Red piped Swedish cuffs on the 1915 friedens Uniforn.... would this be connected to that?

Chris,

Have you considered that this might not be an infantry tunic? In examining your photos, the shoulder boards do not seem to match the condition of the tunic. One has moth holes and the other appears to have a staining of the Unterlage. This also might explain why they were sewn in rather than just buttoned on using the loops.

I believe that Beamten wore red piped Swedish cuffs. Anyway, something to think about.

I don't think these cuffs are connected to the adoption of red piped barrel cuffs on the Bavarian Bluse. The cuffs shown are not barrel cuffs, but rather normal sized Swedish cuffs with buttons.

Chip

This is one reason why I am not a fan of officer's and private purchase NCO's tunics. During the war there was a lot of liberty taken with the regulations, especially in the area of hybrid mixes of M10 and M15/16 tunic features.

Chip

Hoss,

Just so you won't feel alone, I'll agree with you. :)