Chip

I do think that there were guidelines for the sizes of officer's cyphers. Obviously, since they were privately purchased items, there would be some manufacturer variation. In general, the size of the cypher fit the proportions of the board width. For instance, epaulette cyphers (and crowns) are noticeably larger than those for Achselstücke. I have seen military effects catalogs from the period (like that of the Deutsche Offizier Verein)and they show several different sizes. I think it was a matter of taste, but within limits. Just my conjectures.... I'm sure there are some formal period guidelines for outfitting officers.

Chip

Two more pairs, any ideas, parade obviously?

These are the width of the 1866 pattern, but I have never seen anything like them, with that patterned brocade in the center. If they are German military, this pattern was replaced in 1888 by what we normally think of as German officer's boards, that is, the cord type (Plattschnurr).

Chip

There are two issues available online (51 and 53). In this 53 (dated 1992), page 14, we can see "Questions Corner" and "From Chip Minx". Very nice! :-)

Marcin,

I was on the staff of Kaiserzeit starting in 1972. It was the dark ages of imperial collecting. We did our best. The first issue was run off on a Mimeograph machine! I have all of the issues, but it would take a month of Sundays to copy them all. Publication ended some time in the 1990s. At the end, I dropped out, as the new printer was a crook and was taking money and never producing anything.

Chip

Karel,

It's a nice piece and not easy to find. I've been looking for an enlisted man's version for decades. You mentioned that the buttons were polished tombak or nickel, but these look like steel painted M15s? Is the jacket missing it's original buttons or is this a later wartime version? Is it dated?

Thanks,

Chip

First time I've seen it in a photo though.

It's not uncommon to see them in photos of infantry, especially on the earlier tunics. After 1917, the Bluse had a loop (Schlaufe) on the shoulder that was put there so that the shoulder strap could be folded in half or rolled and looped back through it, thus hiding the top of the strap and it's unit number.

Chip

I actually wish they wouldn't mark on the back though...

Yes, it is irritating, but fortunately, it's just pencil and will come off with a soft eraser. The problem is that many of the cards were originally written in pencil, so you have to be very careful.

Chip

...for the life of me, I don't understand why these Feld-Artillerie kanoniere have "white" patches on their should straps...

They're just for security purposes. Their commander may have just had they put them on for the photo or perhaps they were passing through a French town and didn't want the locals to ID their unit.

Chip

An ersatz pickelhaube... The reverse of the card is interesting also... Feldpost stempel for Luftschiffe Nr. 3.

I see Bartko-Reher marks on the back. A good source, but expensive! You can actually get items from them cheaper on Ebay.

Chip

I'll try to take some pictures this coming weekend. I have some unpacking to do, but at least I know where they are!

Joe,

The issue marks were normally right where your Etikett is. I wouldn't pull it off to look, but they are probably there.

Chip

I've got six German shirts, one of which is a navy issue, which I believe is quite scarce. I guess I have a fetish, because I also have British, French and Austrian examples. I also have matching issue Unterhosen for the German and Austrian sets.

Chip

Hard to believe that you could get any usable intelligence from a photo taken by strapping a camera to a bird. How would you get them to fly away over enemy territory and then return? How would you delay the camera so that it would take a photo at the correct time? I have the same incredulous look as the do the birds in these pictures!

Chip

Marcin,

That's a great photo! Thanks for sharing it.

Chip

Joe,

I was only basing my guess on the straps of my British tunic. I admit I am not that familiar with the uniforms of the Dutch, Danes, Norwegians or Swedes during the wartime era, so I could be overlooking something. What do you think about the possibility that it might be a UK made tunic that was used by the Belgians?

Chip

Buttons #3 & #4 are Bavarian. #3 is a steel wartime version worn on the simplified M07 Waffenrock and also the Bluse (though not regulation). #4 is for the M07 Waffenrock and some of the early simplified versions thereof.

I'm guessing #6 is Finnish.

Chip

Thanks for backing me up Joe. I was beginning to doubt my first impression. I guess the guys on the British forum are all WWII collectors.

Chip

Hi Chip

thanks for clearing that up for me and giving me the link to the other research.I have posted that odd shoulder board on the British section and have a reply that it is not British but possibly German also I have posted on the Turkish section also you never know.So if any one can nail that strap for me that would be great.

Cheers Rob

Rob,

I can tell you that the "odd" shoulder board is definitely not a WWI German example. Perhaps it is Belgian, as I know they wore some uniforms made from British cloth.

Chip

Here is the period photo. It belongs to Carsten (Holsteiner) from the Feldgrau Forum.

Chip

Hi Chip

Ah, probably a saxon special! Do you have a photo too?

What do you think of skype writing next weekend?

Andy,

I do have a copy of a photo of this insignia being worn (an image not owned by me). Kraus says that it is known to have been worn by the Saxons, but he is unsure if any other contingents ever used it. My example is a Probe piece, so I assume that it was originally intended for use by units from any state. I do suppose, however, that the Saxons had some Probe pieces that were particular to them, due to their distinctive uniform differences (that is, Saxon cuffs, Kokarden, belt buckles, Helm-Wappen, usw.).

I can Skype on Saturday or Sunday. PM me with times you would be available.

Andreas,

Yes! The one in your picture is unofficial. Here is an official pattern, known to have been worn by Saxon pioneers.

Chip

Kornel did a good job of identification, but the second strap with the "AR" is actually from the Dragoner Regiment König Albert von Sachsen (Ostpreußisches) Nr.10. I have a M1915 example and the cypher and crown are identical.

A Feldartillerie regiment would have had a "bursting bomb" on the shoulder strap. The strap with the rounded end is British or Commonwealth from the five button Service Dress (SD) drab uniform.

Your best bet for finding out who the field artillery and cavalry units faced is to look at the "Histories of 251 Divisions of the German Army..." (which you can download on-line). The Kraftfahr boards are a general pattern and are not traceable. The FAR 79 spent the entire war with the 41st Division. Starting out on the Eastern Front, it came to the Western Front toward the end of February 1917 and remained in various parts of France and Belgium (Arras, Albert, Flanders, Argonne) for the remainder of the war. Elements of the 10th Dragoons were also in the 41st Division throughout the war. So it looks like those two pieces were grabbed at approximately the same time.

Chip

Typical Reserve FAR shoulder strap (simplified M07 pattern). Notice the special "rounded" numbers are the same ones used for the collars of the Landsturm uniforms.

Hi IG!

Artillery shoulder straps with metal numbers were those form Reserve-regiments. RFAR 3 (Stettin and Bromberg). Set up at mobilization, generally under command of 3.Res.Div.

It's true that reserve FAR units wore metal unit numbers, but they did not wear metal bursting shell (i.e., bomb) insignia. The bomb was the normal cloth insignia like any other enlisted man's shoulder strap. So I repeat that this piece is postwar.

Somewhere, I have a photo of a cover in the 800 number series, so don't count your chickens yet!

OK, IrishGunner, you win. I found my photos and the highest cover number I have is 843. Ratz!

Super interesting! I had no idea that these old dies still existed in such numbers. I can only imagine how difficult it must be to find such things.

Chip