NavyFCO

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Ukaz: A decree from the Presidum of the Supreme Soviet

Prikaz: A decree (or order) from any unit below the Presidum (to include Fronts, Armies, Corps, Division, Regiments, etc....)

Ukazes were used for long service awards, as well as most awards given post-WW2.

Prikazes were normally used for non-long-service awards during WW2, and rarely before or after.

In my book, I simply listed them all as "Order" for both (as they can translate out as that) such as "Order of the Red Banner awarded by Order of the 1st Belorussian Front No. 023/N dated 24 April 1945" and "Order of the Red Banner awarded by Order of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet dated 11 November 1944".

Hope that helps!

Dave

Got a surprise coming....

Well, Although undocumented, they hold a special place in my collection...

I will start off with the second class! I am lucky as there seems to be much of the gilt remaining!

Well, no longer undocumented....

"You've got research!"

One of Ike's uniforms. That's about as good as it gets in my book.

A Marshall, Bradley or Patton uniform would be nice if I couldn't have my first choice though.

Luckily, I have a personal hero that fought in WW2 and earned the Navy Cross. I never met him but I have met his family. I currently own all of his uniforms. So, of the ones that I could realistically own, I own them already (now if I could just get the medals from the family....nah...)

On a personal note, I would really love to have my great uncle's AAF Colonel's uniforms, but he tossed everything when he retired as a general in the USAF in the 60s.

If one could only dream.....

Dave

Just an update on my book.... I hope to have my first batch of books ready by the 3rd week of December - hopefully at the latest by new years.

Welcome to the holidays... I should be seeing copies of the book by mid January. Ah well...

P.S. More info can be found about the book on my website: http://www.forvalor.com/NoDeed.htm

The 1947 date is just when the award card was written. Chances are, he received the Red Star in 1944 and had a temporary document for it until his order book was written in 1947.

Dave

Research said she only got those 2 medals.

It is not unusual at all to see some medals missing on the award card. The primary emphasis of the award card was to document the numbered awards the person received. Depending on when the person received their other awards, their award card may have already been written and stored in the archives before they received their medals. Considering that she was discharged in mid-1945, it may have taken years before her medals got to her.

Can you post up the research?

Dave

How can you get a medal for the Defense of Stalingrad and a CSM medal without being awarded a the Victory over Germany medal?

Pretty easy - she didn't have her service book updated after her discharge, and her Victory medal was given to her after her discharge, perhaps even in late 1945 or even 1946-47.

Dave

This stuff is out of price for the big majority of Soviet collectors on this forum. So I think it doesn't affect us so much.

I'm not sweating the results of this auction too much as I don't think that the buyers of these awards are the same ones that are the buyers of the things that most of us can afford. The collectors of republican awards often don't cross into the "common" Soviet awards, and even rarer are the collectors of Imperial awards that cross into Soviet awards.

The results of this auction though shouldn't surprise anyone though. All of these awards are very rare and sought after, and I wouldn't be surprised if the new owner of the St Andrew is one of the new Russian billionaires (I know of at least one that is a serious collector of militaria) to whom money really isn't that much of a problem.

Luckily for us, this sort of person would be flooded if they ever started buying the groups that we can afford! Thus, I don't think this will do anything to change the overall prices of Soviet awards. Now, had the pulled awards been auctioned off, we might have seen a few records hit for prices with the same Russian billionaire(s) playing in the bidding pool, but to be honest I really doubt that they would have garnered much more than we see them for sale at the moment, unless someone got bit by the "auction bug" and just wanted to do everything possible to outbid the other buyer.

Just my opinion....

Dave

so it looks like we should start forming a Famous Militaria Authors Club around these parts!

and my JOMSA article (on Soviet awards to Americans) will be in the next issue of the JOSMA, with my Homeland 3rd article coming out shortly thereafter...

Just an update on my book.... I hope to have my first batch of books ready by the 3rd week of December - hopefully at the latest by new years. I realize that doesn't help folks buying 'em for Christmas, but I do what I can do! The price will be $40 plus shipping per book.

Dave

Is there any information on the reverse (other than the notes of the archivist) regarding the For Valor medal being upgraded to the Glory?

A feeling I have about this is that he might have initially been awarded a For Valor medal, but was upgraded later. Could be that he never recieved his For Valor medal and it was upgraded, or he received it and it was later exchanged (or perhaps it could have been lost when he was wounded or invalided out...) There's an odd gap between the 27 December 1943 prikaz from the unit and the fact that the award wasn't given to him until nearly ten years later, so there might be some good theories out there.

Incidentally, on late "catch up" award cards (like this one) I have rarely ever seen them with the campaign awards. Normally, they just have the person's medal. Sometimes, they might include any/all others medals they received, or it might be an entirely separate award card.

Dave

I have a friend whose father is in the Russian Army at present, and who is able, hopefully, to ascertain to whom these Orders were awarded. I shall advise of results, if any. . .

Not to be a wet blanket, but just so you don't get your hopes up too high.... I'm fairly certain that they won't be able to get the names. If they can, I'll be very impressed. I had a contact who had access physically in the archives (got some great pics inside the archives!) who couldn't do it. The fellow we all use for research can do it, but even he isn't fully certain of how they get the information to him.

Dave

Thought I had a pic of Castro with his ribbons, but it was not to be... It's still a nice, pretty picture of him back in his glory days though.

Well, I've heard of raising prices, but if 1985 OGPWs start selling for $122 a piece, I'm done with Soviet collecting - I couldn't afford it anymore!

Seriously, I think some sellers know that the prices have gone up, so they're taking a chance to see what price they can maximize from their awards. The OGPW is way overpriced, and the Red Star is overpriced for this serial number range. However, if the Red Star was of a range I needed for my research, I MIGHT be tempted to buy it at this price (though I'm not saying it's worth it!)

Dave

Here's the second page of the award book...

Here's the inside of the order book....

By the way everyone, I was able to confirm (via the Archives) that this young lad was awarded his medal for action in Egypt.

No, there's no photo in the award book, so IT IS NOT FAKE.

Dave

I don't have a dog in this fight as I don't own one of these (nor have any intention to do so) but I would still have my doubts about this medal for several reasons (and this was well before Igor posted up his original for comparison.) Compare this one to Igor's. Note that Igor's is silver with a nice patina. The one in the auction doesn't even appear to be silver, let alone with a patina. It looks more like a dark grey metal of some sort. Second, the one in the auction has the numbers cast into the piece from when the faker made a cast of the original medal. Once again, compare that to Igor's, and you'll see that the numbers aren't cast into the arms, but are instead cleanly stamped. Finally, look at the detail on the George and on the reverse. It's not near what it should be, even with many years of wear. There are a few other things, but those were the biggest keys to me.

Dave

Would you Please post the front of the document, too?

Ask and you shall receive.......

Doc-

It's your lucky day. I found my scans of the group.

Here's the inside of the doc for you. Let me know if there's anything else you'd like to see.

Dave

Dave,

Would you Please post scans of the Polish document for the War Medal 1939-1945?

Doc

Doc-

It was a pretty common doc so I don't think I scanned it before the group got packed up. I should be able to access the group here shortly though and can scan it for you then.

Dave

His MM and first Red Star are both long-service awards. I have to go to work at the moment, but will post up the citations for his final Red Star and Red Banner later.

Dave

and the reverse....