NavyFCO

Here's a real beaut that Igor M had up a while back...

I have been going through my hard drive and found some old photos of groups that have been available over the years. Some I've ended up owning. The majority I've simply drooled upon! Here's a selection for all of you who have started recently collecting of what's been available since I started collecting these photos back in 1998/99...

ENJOY!!!

Dave

October Revolutions are strange things, so you never know. Most having been issued as single entries in their own Orders Books doesn't help trying to figure out groups, either. But I'd say a 1976 Lenin really really really meant something, and not just press release propaganda.

From what I've got in my ever ongoing serials/dates list, there seems to have been a mini spike of about 15,000 Lenins in the last 3 months of 1976...

an anomalous "hiccup" in a decade 1972-81 that only saw about 50,000 for all ten years.

What's interesting is that three of the five awards were all awarded in December... It makes me wonder if that was her anniversary of employment or something like that. Also, a 24 December Lenin makes me think that it was a "group" award - kind of like the British awardings on New Years and the Kings/Queens birthdays... Quite interesting... Guess we just get to wait till the research comes back to find out what we can!

Dave

Guys-

Thanks for the comments! I've already requested research on it, though he's had very little luck with the more "modern" groups like this (my HSL "plus two" Lenin group came back as a dead end) but it's always worth a shot... In 15 years of collecting Soviet awards, I've encountered less than ten legit groups with the October Revolution, despite the number issued. (I do know of several that aren't "legit" that have the October Revolution, but...) So, with all things considered, I just had to have it in my collection! I'm very curious what she would have done... I'm imagining that she was probably the Director of some sort of successful industry. The ladies I worked with at RIA commonly had the Badge of Honor (sometimes several) and one or two RBLs, but I think THEIR bosses often had a Lenin tossed in with the mix. Rather interesting!

Dave

Thanks for looking... From the similar handwriting, it looks like some of these were all awarded while the same folks were working the same jobs! I'm guessing that she probably retired after the Lenin. After all, the next step would have been the HSL... That would have been mighty nice for the collection!

Dave

Her head might have been spinning with the next two... WHAM! WHAM! Why not award someone a Lenin AND an October Revolution???

Yet ANOTHER Red Banner of Labor (must have been starting to get bored by this time...)

Let's now toss in a Badge of Honor a few years later...

Her first award, the Red Banner of Labor... Not a bad starter award!

As some of you know, I'm a sucker for labor groups and when this one was offered for sale by a fellow forum member, I just had to have it... So, now in it's new home... A very impressive group to a lady who earned them all within a ten year period! Must have had more than a few good days at work!!!

Dave

And what's the story with the red four-leaf clover in the order book?!?!?!

Hmmm... First, that's a BEAUTIFUL watch!

Second, my guess would be that it belonged to a member of the People's Deputies or the Supreme Soviet. It's definately a watch that would have been worn by a high ranking civilian; one of those types that "believed" in communism per-se... but liked the finer things in life and wasn't afraid to have nice stuff - because their contact with the mere mortals of the Soviet realm would be limited at best.

This could have belonged to a diplomat, but I just am not 100% comfortable with that answer. However, a good argument could be made for that, given the fine handwork done on it to impress foreign heads of state and other diplomats - and the painting of the Kremlin to remind the diplomat where their loyalties lay...

I'm going to also say that I'm pretty certain that it wouldn't have belonged to a military officer, as it seems a bit too ornate... The pocketwatches that I've seen from that time frame (even presentation ones) were normally very utalitarian, even if they were made of precious metals and expertly handcrafted.

Thus - my final answer - this belonged to a member of the Supreme Soviet.

Close????

Dave

I still think it looks like a giant seagull.

Dave

Isn't the bravery medal entry in the booklet missing a "0"?

Good catch!

I never saw that. Quite unusual, but the book appears to be 100% righteous... I guess it was an administrative error that no one ever caught!

Dave

I'm no bird expert, so I thought it looked like a seagull at first (I've seen some BIG ones before!)

Albatross makes sense... though Rick is right... it looks quite... ALIVE!

Dave

As I know this dealer well I have to believe that it is a fair price. I was just suprised, as it was not awarded thus possibly decreasing its value.

Doc

Doc-

Surprise! We "researchers" are actually the minority of Soviet award collectors. There is a much greater percentage of people out there who collect by type and/or condition. I can't tell you how many times I've seen research thrown away from awards or groups because the buyer just wanted the award(s) because of a rare variation. This will go in someone's collection who appreciates the numismatic value of the piece, and who wouldn't give two cents (or kopeks) for who it may or may not have been awarded to.

Dave

For what it is, I'm not sure the price is unreasonable. For this, I think you look into selling family members.

I think the price is fairly close to right on. Doing a survey of various dealer's websites, I came up with these rough numbers:

BK3 - $4000

Nevsky - $1600

Red Banner (screwback) - $600

Red Banner (hanging) - $125

Red Banner 2 screwback - $2600

Red Banner 4 - $4000

Red Banner 5 - $14000

Other medals - around $200 for the lot

So, in parts, we'd be looking at around $27,125 (and I think I might be low on a couple of the awards)

Throw in $225 a pop on McDaniel COAs (11 of 'em) you've got an extra (whopping!) $2475 on top of that - taking it up to about $30,000 in just parts alone!

For a group like this with $30K in parts, I don't think a $4K "group premium" is that bad.

Heck, with all that considered, the group is a downright good deal!

Dave

The photos on Igor's site are awesome (I wish I knew how he did them!) The photo of the book is to-die-for...

What I'm SHOCKED about is that he never became an HSU. I've owned HSU groups to bomber pilots with less sorties and achivements than he. He must have been very unliked by his chain of command!

Dave

I've got to say that's one of the nicest groups I've seen in a long time! Even in my jadedness, I've got to say that that would probably be a "dream" group for me as well... Now if the guy was just an HSU, how perfect would that be???

Even back when things were "cheap" most of us couldn't afford this one anyway. I don't know, but I think about three years ago, this was probably still a $10,000 group.

Dave

Can somebody post an accepted original example of this engraved mark please?

Thanks! Rick

Rick-

This is the best I can do from my scans of the group, sorry. You can kinda see it... sort of...

I do know that they readily fake these, and they can fake them pretty well.

Dave

You know, my advice... Were it me, I would wait and save my money a bit more to buy one with the original suspension with numbered screw nut. As this is, you don't know if the dealer (or someone else) added the medal to the document. I think it's worth it for the extra money to buy everything matching.

Dave

Here's a pic of Ike's Victory. Forgive my name on the photo, but I had to pay for this photo from the Eisenhower Library for the article I'm writing on Soviet awards to Americans, and would prefer that it not be "stolen". Image courtesy of the Eisenhower Library...

Dave

Now for some more fun, here's my "sales pitch" from my website when I sold the group. I don't remember what year I sold it, but I believe it was either late 2003, or early 2004 when it was sold. Note the price!

This is an exceptional Berlin valor group to a Lieutenant Colonel! This group belonged to Colonel Yakov Trofimovich Kravchenko, Commander, 878th Odessa, Order of the Red Banner, Order of Suvorov 3rd Class, Army Air Defense Regiment, and consists of the following:

Order of the Red Banner 127731

Order of the Red Banner 192044

Order of the Red Banner "3" 9074

Order of Nevsky 31005

Order of the Red Star 2880470

Medal For Military Merit 197938

Medal For Military Merit 1503778

Medals (without documents):

Victory Over Germany

Liberation of Warsaw

Capture of Berlin

The group is complete, no numbered award is missing!

All of the awards are included in a wartime order book that includes a photo of the recipient in dress uniform, wearing his two Red Banners, two Military Merit medals and Nevsky order, as well as the three medals. The photo bears the stamp of the 1st Guards Tank Army!

Preliminary research has been done in on the group for both his Nevsky and first Red Banner. His citations are exceptional!

His Red Banner was awarded in July 1944 for being one of the first to cross the Bug River, then defending the crossing against enemy air raids, as well as destroying enemy ground firing positions! During the landings, his Regiment shot down 75 enemy aircraft! (WOW!)

His Nevsky was awarded for the assault on Berlin. He supported the crossing of the Oder River, and on 16 April 1945, he destroyed massed air attacks against the headquarters of the 8th Guards Army! During these raids, his unit shot down 44 enemy aircraft!

The group comes with research from the Archives of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, which includes citations for his Nevsky and one Red Banner. His other citations and personnel file have been requested. They will be offered to the buyer at cost upon their completion.

This is a GREAT group for both combat citations and the Berlin campaign!!!

$975

Here's one of his Red Banners...

Now that I'm home, here are a couple citations that came with the group. Unfortunately, I cannot find the translations that I did of the research, and I just sent off the research for the group about two weeks ago to the new owner, so I can't scan that either. But, here are two citations I have from the group that were done before I bought it and that I scanned. I've trimmed them tight to not be a huge file... I hope they're readable!

Dave