NavyFCO

Labor Victory would make sense, but that's got to be a 1957 Leningrad from the contrast:

I'm with you! Mystery solved!

These ribbons are easy (sorry for not popping in before)....

Defense of Leningrad

Labor Victory

30 Years of Soviet Armed Forces

40 Years of Soviet Armed Forces

Irreproachable Service 3rd Class

Hope that helps!

Dave

I wonder if the post-WW1 Occupation Medal here is an error for the post-WW2 one?

Yes, initially, the WW1 Occupation ribbon was given out after WW2 to those on occupation duty in 1945-46. Not that common, but it was documented to have happened.

Dave

With response to Rick's question, he was released into the reserves in August 1949. I unfortunately wrote his bio without having his service history and personnel file which took nearly two years to get from the researcher! Now that I am home, I'll shoot them to Ed...

Dave

Dave,

Are you talking about DougD at the Soviet Forum?

Doc

Perhaps... His website hasn't been updated because his webmaster has been gone, but hopes to get it updated next week. We'll see.

Not to let out anyone's secrets, but if anyone is interested in purchasing early buds, a Soviet dealer (ahem... DougD) just got in one of the largest budyonovka collections in the United States to sell...

Just heard that through the grapevine if anyone is interested.

Dave

Ed:

It's Strod, Viktor Yevgenievich.

Of course, I cheated and know the other documents in the group with the name written better.

Dave

Is there a list of all the foreigners, who got a Glory 3cl - anyone, who got a Glory 2cl ?

No. On both counts...

Very nice photo! Where did you find it?

Yep, found it.... Will be in your next box with the OTHER missing medal.....

As there's no service recoprd (so no murky xeroxed photo), there may be more research yet to do, but quite a story emerges anyway. Thanks to all who have helped so far.

Oy! Did I forget to send it! Ouch! Sorry..... next box, I promise!!!

I think this should put an end to all those who say that research "is overrated"!

This makes the group undeniably right! Congrats Christian!

Dave

A NY dealer had this group for sale and was originally asking $20K for it - this was back in about 1998 as I remember. I was talking to several collectors about a year later and I heard that he sold them for much less than that; I think around $12K. Cheap by today's standards, but back when you could buy a normal Cavalier group for around $3500, that made it a bit pricey! I might have some better pics of it in my files and will post if I can find them.

Dave

And here's one that would be a shame upon history to repair. Note the star and the photo of the original owner wearing the exact star with the exact damage on it.

Some condition aficiandos would insist that it be restored if it could be. But if this is the way the vet wore it, why restore it???

Dave

Here's one I'd love to fix.... This is an OGPW1 in one of my last remaining groups (now a total of 2) I broke this one... It was in a frame whose screw pulled out of the wall a few years back and in falling down, the enamel was broken. I was heartbroken that this happened, and still am. I'd love to fix it, but at the same time can't bring myself to "restore" an award and make it an obvious looking restoration. So for now, it remains.....

Here's a nice little group, I think it's owned by a fellow forum member now. Nevsky + OGPW + Red Star, all converted to pinback...

Carol I brings up an interesting thought....

What's the difference between "repair" and "restoration"???

I wouldn't have an issue with him having a professional jeweler un-bending the piece, as it should be a simple and easy repair.

But my gut hates the thought of polishing a Soviet For Valor medal or replacing the enamel.

Kidn of a mix of emotions!!! (the pain! the pain!)

I once bought a HSU group that had a very early Lenin and Red Banner that had been originally screwbacks. The veteran had converted them to hanging (as he was supposed to do) and then a collector attempted to reconvert them to screwback by removing the hanging loop and drilling "base" holes for the screwposts.

When I got the group, I took it to my local jeweler (a professional goldsmith) and had him replace the hanging loops on the awards, and then replaced them on the original hanging bar that had come with the group.

Was I right in doing that? That's subject to debate. I repaired them to the way the veteran wore them.

And no, I DIDN'T polish them!

Dave

Yes, this is an interesting debate and there are good arguments for both sides.

I have a good friend who routinely replaces Soviet ribbons and polishes his Soviet awards. 60+ years of patina gone in one fell swoop. But, he believes he's doing the right thing as if they were the medals that he had earned (and he has his own chestful, from Silver Star on down) he'd clean them up the same way.

Another fellow collector and friend remounts even the US groups he owns in the British court-mounting style. LUCKILY he keeps the original ribbons, and DOESN'T polish the medals, so they are "fixable" (as I fix them when I get groups from him!)

I think Rick Research is right when he says that cleaning awards is very much of a cultural thing... I've seen many a nice, shiny British group with new ribbon sell for tons of money, with the clean (and new) ribbon being a "plus" for the value. For the Soviets, there's no way to stereotype, but I've personally never seen a group directly from the veteran that had brand new ribbons on it. Yet, at the same time, I owned probably the "classic" Glory Cavalier group that had the living tar polished out of it being polished every day for over 50 years!!!

"Restoring" is also hobby-specific... My dad collects model trains and since I can remember (he started collecting in the early 1950s) he routinely restored them. He prided himself in being able to take a rust-covered, dirt-encrusted train and restore it to it's original glory. To him that was the enjoyment of the hobby and was perfectly acceptable to everyone that I knew in the hobby. Think of collectors of military vehicles and vintage cars... a "ground up" restoration is a PLUS to the value, not a detriment!

At the same time, imagine document collectors "restoring" paper... Could you see someone take a piece of scotch tape to the backside of a Honus Wagner baseball card in an attempt to perhaps "strengthen" a potential tear in the card??? I think you'd have baseball card collectors die from shock!!!

It's an interesting debate, and I'm not sure if there is a "right" answer. I do like the Smithsonian's take on things though... don't do anything that could be mistaken for a period repair, and make sure everything can be undone. That seems reasonable and prudent - perhaps the "best" way for a compromise.

Dave

P.S. For my own personal medals, when they get dirty, I throw them out and buy new ones.

WOW WOW WOW!!!!!

Okay, seriously. That For Valor medal with the special presentation book is AMAZING. Hands down the best one I've ever seen! The box is 100% correct on it, and it is AWESOME with the photo. That's just simply amazing!!!

The Military Merit is also very nice. It was awarded under the Ukaz for veterans of the Russian Revolution on the 50th Anniversary.

VERY VERY VERY NICE FINDS!!!!

(no kidding, I can't emphasize how nice these are!!!)

Dave

These were issued in 1985, so the manufacture on them was probably from 1984-1985.

Dave

Pm sent!

Anyhow I'm hoping some of ya'll might be able to help me narrow down my search and make it worth the time and gas to head out on the prowl. I'm certainly open to any kind of militaria but mostly trying to stay focused on my Soviet/Soviet block collection and with smaller item I can carry back (by train) instead of having to ship. But if something really good pops up at a great price I do have to ship some items up to the house so I can always add a small bit to the pile if need be.

My thought is that the "best" places aren't the ones that folks on here would be telling you about. (Everyone likes to have their "own" supplier...)

I've found that many militaria shops, particularly older ones where the folks aren't internet savvy (or at least don't check any of the big Russian dealer sites often) have some GREAT deals on Soviet awards because the prices have changed so dramatically so quickly! A local shop here in VA had a Homeland 3rd for $110 and a nice double Red Banner + OGPW2 + Red Star group for $220 just about a month ago. Needless to say, I pulled out my credit card in a heartbeat! (Made a nice profit listing 'em up on ePay!)

Just pays to look at the old shops from time to time....

Dave

Actually, Vozhachenko's was 8 January 1980-- My typo oops now fixed on the documented serial numbers list here.

But yon Major got his for rough times at some obscure spot called

Tora Bora.

Now WHERE oh where have I heard THAT one before?

WOW! I had translated that as "Tura Bura" and it never dawned on me! I guess the Soviets had a tough time fighting there too!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tora_Bora

Dave

Here's the citation.

Interestingly, the serial number (3735425) fits in perfectly with another recorded Afghanistan Red Star (3738401) but the later one was actually awarded on 3 January 1980! I was about to sell this Red Star as the research was requested on 26 February 2006, and just arrived (via e-mail!) on 16 June 2007!

Dave

Reverse....