NavyFCO

Red Star...

Order of the Red Banner, Multiple Awards

Order of the Red Banner

Here are a few more, verified by my research and others...

Order of Lenin

There's a pinned thread with thousands of numbers: http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/35306-soviet-serial-numbers-for-military-awards/

Looks like yours, if it's a 260XXXX as I'm seeing it from the photos, was an early 1945 award. Probably a good candidate for research.

Dave

Since Canadians are allowed, how do you apply for it. The Russian Medal that is....

Larry

I don't believe there's anything to apply for. The decision of who-got-what was made off of old award lists of artcic convoy participants. You might be able to petition the Russian Embassy, but the Ukaz has already awarded the decoration to a list of recipients by name.

Dave

And here's the photo mentioned above. You can see his Glory ribbon on the middle of the bottom row, right next to the British DFC.

The answers to the questions posed above are:

1. Yes, receipients of Soviet awards were authorized to wear their decorations for the remainder of their careers and/or as veterans. Did they? That was up to the person. Of the people I interviewed, of those who remained in the service, roughly 20% wore their Soviet awards after WW2. This was partly because of the PITA of wearing the award - screwback decorations tore a hole in uniform jackets, and the pins for pin-on awards were notoriously difficult to get straight. Because of the shape of the award ribbon, they couldn't be mounted on standard medal bars (though I've seen at least one example where it was). Ribbons were tough to get ahold of; most dealers didn't have Soviet ribbons in stock. Below is a photo though of a recipient of the Order of Glory, 3rd Class, who wore his while still on active duty in the Navy in the late 60s.

Other recipients had different ideas. One recipient of the OGPW1 crushed his and then sent it back to the Soviet Embassy! Ouch!

2. During WW2, the policy/procedure that slava mentions was in place. All recipients had to have official authorization to receive and wear foreign awards. I have copies of several original documents authorizing both Army and Navy recipients to wear their awards. For the 190 Navy recipients, all of their awards were processed through the Bureau of Personnel before they were distributed so the recipients had approval before they even received the awards. For the Army recipients who received the awards in the field, they had to request authorization via their chain of command and often it took 6 to 12 months for official approval was granted to wear the awards.

Hope that helps!

Dave

The likely presentation site, however, is Czechoslovakia based on the 2nd ID's location at war's end as well as separate, but related images of similar presentations to 2nd ID personnel.

Good call...I never did find any vets from this presentation to interview when I was doing my research on them. Too bad... :(

The citation from this presentation...

Alex:

I think I have the full picture (and a couple others) on my harddrive...somewhere...I believe I also might have the citation that came with the Glories awarded at that presentation as well. But if I could only remember the name of the file...

Thanks for the welcome back! I'm dusting off my Soviet skills.

Dave

I've seen the other photos from this awarding ceremony, and the awards are being pinned on by a Soviet officer. This ceremony, if I remember correctly, took place in Germany in May 1945.

Yes, most US awards to Soviets were given without US represenation, much like the 1945 awardings of Soviet awards to US Navy personnel...most of them received their awards in the mail. (Just talked to a family of an Ushakov medal recipient this morning about that, in fact...)

I'm thinking this photo is a bit out of context. I would venture to bet that if it continued to the right, you'd see a Soviet officer pinning on the award. The Americans are officers, probably the unit commander and his deputy, congratulating the soldier after the award was pinned on.

Dave

I also had a uniform group to a fellow who fought for both the Americans and the Soviets. He was one of Darby's Rangers and was captured in January 1944. He was eventually freed from his POW camp by the Soviets and fought his way back to join up with the US forces. He was also the only US general officer killed by small arms fire in Vietnam while commanding the 199th Infantry Brigade.

Interestingly, not two days ago did I get a copy of the 6 June 1945 Stars and Stripes newspaper that details yet another freed POW who fought with the Soviets, this time going into Berlin. Unfortunately for him, he was found to have suffered amnesia and didn't even remember his name...very interesting...

Dave

It looks like a star in the 900K range, so it's probably an engraving error (a digit too much). Interesting.

(Good to have you back by the way. A new beginning? )

This Star was supposedly issued in mid-1945, so a 900K range one would certainly be possible (though most were issued in late 1944). I have no documentation of it (yet) but this one came in a group to an American soldier of the 69th Division.

As far as a new beginning...LOL...until prices come back to what they were in 2003, I still can't afford Soviet collecting!

Dave

All:

I haven't posted for a while because I haven't bought anything Soviet in ages. However, I saw this Red Star and couldn't pass it up. Anyone have any idea about the numbering? It clearly looks like a "9" in the front, but that's way out of any numbering range...thoughts?

Dave

Here's how I read his record from the research I've done today...

Inpregnable - school ship

Constance - corvette

Cambridge - gunnery ship

Garnet - corvette

Liffey - frigate (store hulk)

Champion - corvette

Garnet (2)

Champion (2)

Vivid I - Barracks (Plymouth)

Cambridge (2)

Vivid I (2)

Cruiser - sloop

Vivid I (3)

Thunderer - battleship

Hood - battleship (not the WW2 one)

Cambridge (3)

Britannia - battleship

Vivid - depot ship at Devenport

Russell - battleship

Vivid I (4)

Espiegle - sloop

Vivid I (5)

Jupiter - cruiser

Vivid I (6)

Grive - couldn't find anything about this...

Vivid II - Accounting base in Devenport

Looks like (to my count) he served on 13 ships over 33 years. Quite a career. Some of the ships (like the corvettes) were nice (large) ships...not the little ships that we'd expect them to be these days.

Interesting!

Dave

Bottom half...

A bit larger...top half...

All:

I thought it was tough to read Soviet service histories. That was because I am a native English speaker. Then, I downloaded a service history for a Royal Navy petty officer...wow! Tough for a native English speaker!

I just bought this fellow's Russian For Zeal medal from the HMS Jupiter and am trying to research him. Looks like he served from 1886 to 1919 (33 years!) I have to ask - is this number of ships normal for a RN petty officer back then? Seems like an awful lot! Also, what is the box about gunnery engagements? Does that mean acutal combat? I couldn't place any combat given the dates...

Any help/translation on this document is MOST appreciated!

Dave

Excellent! Thanks guys!!!

Dave

Chip: Thanks for the reply!

Anyone have any idea of what this might be worth? It's with a large US Army group that I'll be selling here in the near term and it would be good to get a ballpark value of what it's worth...$10 or $1000?

Thanks!

Dave

All: I don't know anything about WW1 Imperial German, but I just got this dogtag in a group of items from a two-war WW1/WW2 US Army veteran. I ASSUME it's from WW1, as it's much heavier than a WW2 one, and he never served overseas in WW2. Is it a WW1 German dogtag? If so, any idea of who or what the person who wore it was? Thanks!

Dave

I know there had been some discussion/concern about archive access for research being cut off.

A) Is research still possible?

B) Is it possible to research a Soviet numbered award made to a "foreigner"?

C) Whom do I have to contact to do this?

Thanks much for any help!

I can't really help you with A or C anymore, but as far as I'm aware, the answer to B is "it depends". What kind of "foreigner" is it? If it's to someone from the former Soviet bloc, you may be able to get info on them. If it's Mongolian, I have seen a single Ukaz where they were mentioned. If they were given the award for the 50th Anniversary of the Revolution, the name is in an Ukaz. Lots of variables...depends on what country they're from.

Dave

Here's a page from the article showing the embassy stamps on both Haycraft's and Baughan's order books. These match the one from the eBay auction exactly.