NavyFCO

I finally found a copy of my JOMSA article (as published). If anyone would like a .pdf of it (7.5MB) please shoot me an e-mail and I can send it to you.

Dave

Gents,

Here is another example.

Regards,

slava1stclass

And that's the one in my collection. I have more scans/photos of others if needed, but I think this one would do for comparison purposes?

As far as Rick's questions, I actually addressed all of those in my JOMSA article. Here's a summary from the article:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

While the Soviets were awarding decorations to US Army personnel after V-E Day in Europe, they likewise shared their attention on the sailors of the US Navy later that same year. These awardings were much less formal, and for the most part, much less random.

The declaration (called an ?Ukaz?) of the Supreme Soviet dated 7 July 1945 announced the awarding of decorations to US Navy and Coast Guard personnel. The Embassy of the USSR published an Information Bulletin announcing the awards which read:

?For outstanding military activities which facilitated the sailing of transports with war supplies to ports of the Soviet Union during the war against the common enemy of the USSR and the USA - Hitlerite Germany - and for the valor and gallantry they displayed, the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR has awarded decorations to the following servicemen of the Navy, Naval Reserve, Coast Guard and Coast Guard Reserve of the United States of America:?

What followed in this declaration was a list of 189 recipients of the following awards: Order of the Patriotic War, 1st Class, 2nd Class, Order of the Red Star, Order of Glory 3rd Class, and the medals For Valor, For Military Merit, Ushakov and Nakhimov.

The awards were roughly divided along the lines of rank: Officers received the Order of the Patriotic War 1st Class, officers and Chief Petty Officers received the Order of the Patriotic War 2nd Class. Orders of the Red Star and Glory 3rd were a bit more encompassing, being awarded to all ranks. The medals For Valor, For Military Merit, Ushakov and Nakhimov were awarded only to enlisted personnel.

After conducting numerous interviews with recipients of these awards, I found it very difficult to pin down an exact pattern or rationale for the awarding of these decorations. However, some were easier to understand than others. Two officers, Lieutenant Commander (later Rear Admiral) Sheldon Kinney and Lieutenant (also later Rear Admiral) Robert Baughan received Orders of the Patriotic War, 1st and 2nd Class, respectively. Both officers served on ships on the treacherous trans-Atlantic convoy runs and were decorated during these convoys by the US Navy - Kinney the Silver Star and Baughan with the Bronze Star.

RADM Baughan served on the USS Lexington (CV-2) and later on the USS Champlin (DD-601) during the trans-Atlantic convoys. As a young Lieutenant, he was awarded the Bronze Star for the sinking of the U-130 on 12 March 1943. Because of this action, he was included in the awards presented by the Soviet government.

Other recipients, such as LCDR Milton Sherbring and LT Alex Brokas who both flew torpedo bombers (TBM-1D) with VC-42, received their Soviet awards for their part in sinking U-1229 on 20 August 1944. As in the case with Lieutenant Brokas, his Order of Glory 3rd Class was given because of a corresponding US Navy award - a Distinguished Flying Cross.

Although these brave men never approached Soviet waters, a number of the sailors and officers on the treacherous ?Murmansk Run? as well as on convoy runs into the Arabian Gulf with supplies bound for the USSR via Iran received awards for valor displayed on these runs.

LT David Pickler served as the Officer in Charge of the 12-man armed guard onboard the SS George Clymer, and received his Red Star for actions that took place while transporting a load of lumber and aircraft to Iran. LT Thomas Delate also was in charge of an armed guard detachment on a convoy into Murmansk that was attacked enroute with considerable losses. He was awarded a Commendation Ribbon for this trip by the US Navy and the Order of the Red Star by the Soviets.

On the enlisted side, Gunner?s Mate 1st Class Garnett DeBaun shot down a German aircraft while his ship was unloading cargo in Murmansk on Christmas Day 1942, which earned him the Order of the Red Star. Boatswain?s Mate 2nd Class Andrew Matheson had a slightly more unusual action. His ship was bombed by German aircraft in port Archangel, and while ashore, he assisted in aiding Soviet citizens who had been wounded during the bombing. For this, he earned the medal ?For Valor? but no corresponding American award.

The presentation of these awards seemed to differ based on the rank of the recipient. For officers, the awards were normally sent without fanfare in the mail. RADM Baughan told me about how he received his award:

?It showed up in the mail one day. There was no presentation, but included in the package was the award, a box and several documents. These documents included the announcement from the Soviet government that listed all of the recipients of these awards, the booklet with the award, and a book of coupons for a stipend in Russia. Also included with the documents was a letter from the Bureau of Naval Personnel that told me that I could not accept anything from the Soviet government that came with the award [e.g. the stipend] (Figure X).?

Figure X (Letter from Bureau of Personnel)

He also recalled that there was also a letter from the Bureau of Personnel authorizing him to do as the Soviets instructed him to include a photo and return the order book to the Soviet Embassy for official recording and stamping. From the order books that I have had the opportunity of seeing, I have found that the recipients infrequently sent their documents back for stamping. The majority simply have the ?Valid without Photo? stamp. Those that were returned bear the stamp of the Soviet embassy in the United States (Figure X).

Figure X (Haycraft?s Order Book)

Figure X (Haycraft?s Stamp closeup)

Figure X (Broka?s Order Book)

Another interesting note about the order book is that no award number is listed, but simply the Ukaz date in considerable contrast to the normal Soviet practice of listing all awards by their serial numbers in the order book. No Navy award order book that I have personally seen has had the award number listed in it (Figure X).

Figure X (Inside Haycraft?s Book)

For the enlisted side, nearly all of those I interviewed had a formal presentation for their award, even if they had already been discharged from the service. Boatswain?s Mate Matheson described his presentation ceremony as a ?big presentation? at the city hall in the small town of Halliday, North Dakota in mid-1946. Gunner?s Mate Debaun remembered his award ceremony vividly as a group presentation in 1946 in the city hall in Indianapolis, Indiana.

For both the Army and Navy recipients, there were mixed responses with regard to wearing their awards after the War. Some, like General Wright and Boatswain?s Mate Matheson, wore the Soviet ribbon on their uniforms after the War. Others did not. Although there may be some speculation that some of the recipients didn?t care to wear a decoration from the country that later became our primary enemy during the Cold War, that was normally not the case. In my interviews, I only found one officer who returned his award (an Order of the Patriotic War, 1st Class) to the USSR during the Cold War. For others, their awards were simply not worn because of the inconvenience of wearing them - either having to punch a hole in their dress uniforms, or as in the case of ribbons, finding a ready supplier of Soviet ribbon material!

Figure X (ribbon bar with Soviet ribbon)

On the topic of wearing the awards, one of the questions I asked during my interviews was the recipient?s feelings of the awards during the ?Red Scare? of the 1950s. Not a single officer or enlisted person ever made the potential political ramifications of having been awarded a decoration by an enemy superpower a consideration at to whether or not to disclose their award publicly. Nearly all of them felt that it was simply a foreign decoration that was given to them by another allied nation and maintained that opinion of it, even during the vilification of the USSR as the Cold War intensified. At no time did they ever feel at risk for their careers (and many recipients went on to distinguished careers both in the military and civilian world) because they had received an award from the USSR.

$6100?!?!?!?!

MAN! Yeah, that's through the roof! Someone really, really wanted it!

I thought I was being overly generous when I offered a veteran $1000 for his OGPW2 with the same documents!

This group is 100% legit. The number on the Glory I have is 387911 - just about 20 off of what this one was. My group has the order book, medal in the box and the coupon book. The stamp on the photo in the book is identical.

Sissler is listed in the Ukaz for being awarded a Glory 3rd.

It's an absolutely 100% righteous group!

I think the price is a bit nuts though...but at the same time, if the buyer is reading this, I'll make them a special deal...they can have mine for $6000 and my set was featured in a JOMSA article!

Dave

It is correct that I did not see the article.

Bill - No worries. I would try to get a copy of it as I think it's a mighty good article. (In fact, didn't I post up a copy of it on here a while back?)

To briefly answer some of your questions:

I wonder whether there was some criteria for "awarding" a Guards badge, or whether it was more of a "souvenir" given by the Guards unit?

Guards badges tended to be more of an anomoly than anything else. Americans who were awarded these recalled that they were treated like awards...and for many of them, they believed it was an award; just like the GPW, ORB, RS, etc...most of the recipients didn't know the Soviet awards system all too well during the Cold War to determine otherwise, so they just believed it was a "Guards" medal. Only a handful of units received these badges, my guess is that one or two Guards divisions handed them out in lieu of actual awards...perhaps as a "gesture" when ordered to do so but the Soviet commanding general didn't believe in giving awards to Americans? Who knows...

What's really interesting is that the Colonel receiving the ORB is named on the reverse of the photo. I'm in the process now of attempting to locate one of his family members in the hope of obtaining more information about him. I'm sure that his citation for the ORB was much the same as many of our citations for the Legion of Merit, to wit, "For exceptional services in the Allied cause, materially contributing to the defeat of the enemy", and similar generalizations. But one never knows. I would love to know, for example, if he received an award book? Photo in it? What the heck did he actually do for the Army that led to him being given the ORB, for even if it was a generalized citation, he still had to have been in some position that would have brought him to the attention of the senior award-givers!

If possible, I would love to get his name so I can compare it to my database. Please feel free to PM or e-mail me if you'd rather not post it openly.

AS far as the citation, chances are, he never had one. I only know of one occasion where a Soviet award given in the ETO had an award document, and that was a temporary document. I have documentation from several units of the award serial numbers and recipients, as recorded by the awarding Soviet unit...but the recipients didn't get any hard-copy documentation.

The only ones that you will find with formal documentation are the Navy and Coast Guard awards as you mention later in your post.

As far as why he got it...I don't know. Many of the awards were given out simply because the recipient showed up at the awards ceremony and they were given awards commensurate to their rank. I know of one case where the award was given out due to the recipient's heroism and resulting US award that was roughly equal to the Soviet award.

Hope that helps!

Dave

Great photo! Did you see the OMSA article on Soviet awards to Americans in WW2?

I bet if Bill did, he wouldn't be asking as many questions...as I answered several of the ones he asks in the thread in my article.

:cheers:

Here's something very interesting...

A good friend of mine was Colonel John Wohner, whose Order of Nevsky is just above Colonel Dwyer's on the list!

I thought that document looked familiar...I have a photocopy of that same awards list and used it in my JOMSA article about "Soviet Awards to Americans during the Second World War" that was published in late 2007.

Colonel Wohner has passed on, but I do have quite a bit of information about HOW and WHEN this award was given to Col Dwyer, if you are interested.

Dave

Very nice!

I have had several groups to Jewish veterans and I also encountered various spellings of their names....the Hebrew version and then their "Russian" version. I have primarily seen it during WW2, and then the vets reverted to their original names in the postwar years. I'm sure something happened at some point to make them change their names...one of Stalin's grand ideas to make everyone "Russian" to be certain!

Dave

Beautiful uniform you purchased!

I took the liberty of putting the main photo from the auction here in this thread for archive purposes. This is the photo from the auction.

I bought a very similar uniform, with pretty much the same level of knowledge on these ("Wow, that looks cool!" as my only expertise going in) and found them to be really neat. Mine belonged to a Consul General, which I just happened to be lucky enough to stumble upon.

I appreciate the links to the book... Now time to get some of the other diplomatic uniforms. A Governor General perhaps????

Dave

Do my eyes deceive me or is he also wearing a Type 1 Bravery medal????

Woww..

Cheers

Chris

If you think about it, had he earned the Type 1 For Valor after 1943, it probably would have been another Glory, making him a Cavalier...he's one of those guys that didn't get awards at the right time and came close....but not close enough....to becoming a full Cavalier.

Dave

If this sells for this price, I'll definitely put mine up for sale as I haven't touched it in nearly two years. Might as well have the cash than the dust magnet...

Dave

Okay...before anyone goes off the handle with the "it's a poor fake made to decieve stupid people that was probably sold as a wearer's copy" theory, here's the story...

I was living in Russia in 1992. I was on the market, dealing with a seller from whom I regularly purchased Soviet awards (back when you could buy Red Banners for $12 a pop and such...) Anyway, he got this one in and wanted a whopping $20 for it. I asked him the history of it because it was obviously NOT a real HSU, but had been worn considerably and it was numbered. Turns out that he got it from the family of a HSU, and he believed it was the one that the HSU would wear as he kept his original in safe keeping (the medal is made of brass and is much harder than the gold of a standard HSU). It is also smaller than a normal Gold Star...perhaps the veteran was of smaller stature and it blended in better...anyway that's the story behind it and it was pretty weathered when I bought it in 1992, so it wasn't a recently produced piece. A "real" wearer's copy? Perhaps... a one off actually worn by a veteran? I wish I knew...

Dave

Never having gotten the full tale myself, I look forward to it.

If I post the "item", will that coax you out, Dave????

Hmmmm...perhaps...perhaps... :cheers:

And I look forward to posting the story behind it...

Dave

Thanks a bunch!

I'll do some searches using the McElroy last name and see what I can come up with...

The Burke's Peerage entry online can be found at:

http://www.burkes-peerage.net/familyhomepa...ACELROY-AF-2807

but I unfortunately haven't the access to pull his entire biography! (anyone have Burke's peerage access?)

Dana, your entry from Gleim makes perfect sense...his uniform was tailor made in London and all of the insignia was either made by Firmin (the buttons) or Gaunt (the collar brass).

And finally, here's a pic of the beauty!!!

Dave

Anyone know if there are any records of the citations for these awards kept anywhere in the British records?

Also, I found an entry for the good Major on Burke's Peerage...anyone have access?

His name is (was) Andrew Jackson MacElroy.

Thanks in advance!

Dave

Hi Ed-

His name was Mikhail Mironovich Dokuchits.

He was Sergeant, born in 1918.

I can't read where he was from, but he didn't have party affiliation.

He was Russian, and served in the Red Army from September 1939 to July 1946 (wow! he wasn't discharged immediately after the war...rather unusual...)

He served in the First Guards Tank Regiment, as an Avtomatchik (I'm sure someone has the translation for that).

Interestingly, his award card was filled out in 1956...but his medal book was filled out in 1957!

He was awarded his For Valor under Prikaz 22/N from the First Guards Tank "Stanislav" Regiment dated 25 September 1944.

The rest of the documents are readable, but my dictionaries are unaccessable at the moment...if no one else gets them, I'll give 'em a try a bit later!

Dave

77 awards of the DSO to U S upto to 15 May 1920.

Excellent! Thanks!

Here's a pic of him wearing the DSO ribbon. Due to the black/white photo contrast, the edges look lighter, but they are actually dark blue.

Dave

Might add as well that I found his awarding of the DSO in his online Burke's Peerage listing (and, of course, the ribbon that came with the uniform...) :rolleyes:

All:

In my collecting history, I've been lucky enough to own a WW2 US DSO recipient's uniform and befriend a WW2 US DSO recipient (now passed on) but I've never dealt with WW1 DSO recipients before (save for on the British side).

I recently acquired a uniform to an American who was awarded the DSO while serving with the RFC in about 1917. Couple of questions:

1. Does anyone know how many DSOs were awarded to Americans in WW1?

2. How would I best go about finding why and when the DSO was awarded? Unfortunately, he doesn't seem to have a London Gazette entry, so I'm at a loss on that end.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Dave

One more, in hopes of enciting interest.

Happy family.

Looks like you inherited my early photo collection as well!

This photo was not Russian Civil War per se, but I really, really liked it. When it was offered to me, I jumped on buying it. The overall texture of the photo, the officer's uniform, the content...just beautiful, I think.

Dave

Perhaps the worst part about the deal was the fact that when I originally sold the group, it was supposed to include a pair of WW2 flying gauntlets. Unfortunately, the contact that had gotten the group for me from the son of the vet had some issues sending out clothing/cloth items (he still has...or had...all of the uniforms of a general whose medals and documents I once owned...) so he could never get the gauntlets to me. Bummer.

Well, when I launched into the seller for splitting the group, his rationale to me was:

"Since I never got the gloves, I figured the group was already split, so the fact that the buyer didn't want the research and documents didn't bother me"

Ohhhh my......

Dave

These cases come up from time to time...or at least they used to. At one time I had four or five empty ones in my collection; I bought them from a guy in Georgia (the country) for something like $10 a pop. I used them to store keys for my display boxes...

How common was it to keep boxes with groups? Collecting Soviet awards from 1992 to 2007, I had just two groups that maintained original boxes with the awards. Since the boxes didn't have any sort of packing material in them and were thus pretty useless to keep awards in, they were normally tossed or put to more utilitarian uses...like holding keys.

As far as boxes with the velvet liner, I've only seen those in person with awards given to foreigners and in the photos of some of the high-end awards during their presentation ceremonies. I've never seen a run-of-the-mill Lenin or Red Banner (etc.) awarded with a box with the padded velvet liner. And as Marc says, they are super rare...even when normal boxes were easy to find.

And to find either the orange or red plastic box or the leatherette box for the Friendship of Nations....whoa...good luck...

Dave

Hello,

It seems that Lt-Colonel Timerman Konstantin Anatolevich is on the fast track up the chain(Lt Col at 31).

thanks,

barry

That's the thought that hit me too...The "average" for the US in promotion to O-5 (Lt Colonel/Commander) is 38...even 31 would be young for a O-4 (Major/Lt Commander).

Wow!

Dave

And can't forget...my sale description of the group. By the way, I think I got something around $700 for it when it finally sold...

This is a GREAT career group to a wartime pilot!!! This group of four orders and eight medals belonged to Air Force Colonel Gavril Polykarpovich Pekyur. The group consists of:

Awards:

Order of Lenin 195093

Order of the Red Banner 257943

Order of the Red Star 1131161

Order of the Red Star 1511110

All are listed in Order Book A 454306, dated 30 January 1947, with a first award date of 1 December 1944.

Medals:

Defense of Moscow (with document, interestingly awarded after retirement!)

Victory Over Germany (with document)

Victory Over Japan (with document)

20, 30 Years of Victory (both with documents)

30, 60 Years of Soviet Army (both with documents)

100 Years of Lenin's Birth (with document)

Veteran of the Armed Forces (with document)

Badges:

Graduate of the Air Force Command and Staff School (with document, indicating 1941 graduation, but awarded in 1952)

25 Years of Victory (with document)

Documents:

Diploma for the Air Force Command and Staff School, dated 1941

Reserve Officer's ID book, with photo, dated 1956 (indicates that he was on active duty from 1926 through 1955)

Pass as a technical advisor, with photo, dated 1953

Temporary ID document, with photo wearing medals (RB and both RS's), dated 1947

Four free travel/disbursing books for order awardee

Nine photos, most are in uniform, five are pre-war, four are post-war, including several portrait photos in the early 'french' uniform, and several photos annotated as having been taken on Victory Day (9 May 1945) in the field, showing him wearing his awards (RB and 2 RS's).

Misc.:

"Shturmanokia" wristwatch that he wore during the War (not working)

Pair of leather flight gloves, also worn during wartime flights

The group also comes with research from the Archives of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, including two citations and his complete personnel file - over 33 pages of research!!! (And two photos of him in uniform wearing the four-place medal bar that's in the group!)

This is an excellent group, which was just recently (in February) purchased from his family in Russia! You definitely won't be disappointed with this one!!!

$1000

Here's a picture of the group...