Tim B

The Philippine Collection: I have some other nice notes, namely the 2 pesos. Here's a nice conditioned 1 Peso Note (ND 1943 issue) with both the serial and block numbers on it (the more common variety). Tim

Interesting thread and thought I would throw up a few. My dad brought back a bit from the war and I have accumulated several notes over the years. I have to look for some in the safe and I have a lot in an album somewhere. Here are some of mine: Another Malaya 5 Dollar note (ND 1942 issue) like Bob's. Interestingly, the same period Burmese 5 Rupee note was of the same front design with the coconut palm and paw-paw tree and printed in almost same colors. Tim

Well, no answers yet to the above questions, so thought I would bump it up again with a new addition. Finally got a nice one with the smaller 1914-1918 dates. Tim

Okay, just a last Monnaie example on a WWI Volunteer Combattant Cross. Not as worn down as most, but the flowers in the cornucopia just don't show up in the PIC. Tim

Oh! Now that I know what I am looking for; I can finally see the wolf and understand the mark for George Aucoc. So this mark is different from the one you shown earlier for this maker, but I can now see the "G" above and the "A" below the true to form, 'elusive' Wolf. What do you make of the small secondary diamond mark in the 11 O'clock position to the larger diamond? I may be slow, but I'm learning! Tim

Excellent!! This level of information will greatly assist collectors like myself that want to know specifically if an item is from a certain era and will help weed out those items that might be "claimed" to be something else. Tim

Can I make the assumption that the gold # 3 stamp is circa the same timeframe as the stamps utilizing the #'s 1 & 2 for silver pieces? Tim

Alex, Good luck and whatever you do end up getting, make sure you post it here so we can all enjoy and drool over it!

Alex, Good luck and whatever you do end up getting, make sure you post it here so we can all enjoy and drool over it!

Bison, Thank you for the excellent information and great PIC's for reference!! I was going to add more last night but, the site must have been down as I could not access GMIC at all. Would anyone else want to add to the Monnaie marks before moving on to a different mark? Perhaps tonight or tomorrow we can move on if no other additions. Tim

Thanks you again my friend!! The only one I could come close to, was Loret & Fils (L.et.Fils), but they used a lory for their mark circa 1878. Good to know; so I assume the center motif is a bag of money or a vase?? Not another animal like a crawling polar bear in a snowstorm?? All the best and many thanks again! Tim

Nice! Of course it would take some sharpening!! Nice PIC to illustrate the mark. So, again, do you think the maker is the same on my example (with this style of wreath) or not enough information to be positive? Best, Tim

Anyone else have more Monnaie examples they want to share? Tim

This Knights Class Legion of Honor shows the double cornucopia indicating the whole medal was produced by Monnaie de Paris. Because the Paris Mint produced this piece in it's entirity, there are no other marks on the medal. If you look closely, you will note a small letter "A" stamped on the cornucopia. This indicates the metal content and in this case, indicates silver. A= Argent On other medals, you could find a "O" for Gold. Therefore, one should take the time to properly examine this kind of detail with a good loop or magnifying type lens, as the importanance will come out in the end! Tim

A lot of my information came from other members and I want to give credit specifically to Bison for his assistance in the next part. Most marks found on French ODM's are marks used exclusively by, and dedicated to private jewellers, and are evidence or indications of taxes paid. I'll include a couple of links to some online reference sites that show some examples, but most common are "guarantee" items like the head of a boar or eagle and indicate metal content. Other marks are the maker's hallmark that distingushes them from other manufacturers. http://www.925-1000.com/ http://www.silvercollection.it/Frenchhallmarks.html As there is no real format here, I will just start with a specific maker; in this case, I'll start with the official mark for Monnaie de Paris (Paris Mint). As you can see in the PIC below, the mark is that of a cornucopia and I've included a couple of PIC's showing that mark on actual items. The letters "BR" simply refer to the metal content, which in the cases below, indicate Bronze. The hallmark of la Monnaie de Paris is both an official guarantee and a maker's one. That is why you will never find a cornucopia and another content or guarantee mark like the head of boar or eagle (or both) on the same piece. I'll show an example of this in the next post. However, a part of the medal could be made by a private contractor for la Monnaie. In this case, one part is privately marked, and the other part is marked by La Monnaie. For example, it is the case for the 1st type of the 'Médaille Coloniale' which coin was punched with a cornucopia, and the beliere (I don't know if it is the right english word, but it is in French) was privately punched with 2 marks, a head of hoar (the hallmark) and a diamond with the symbols of the jeweller. Moreover, when all the parts are made and assembled by La Monnaie, there are two cornucopias, as shown in the next post. Tim

I know... basic information to start, but there will be new collectors unfamiliar with French awards, so here goes. Below (annotated in red) are some of the more common areas where you will find the marks on various Orders, Croix, and Medals. Look at the suspension rings where ribbons attach, or that part of the suspension where the ring attaches to the medal itself. Most common type medals are marked on the reverse. You can also find marks on the edges and of course, sometimes they are simply not marked at all. Tim

I know the feeling Hugh and no worries, there are many here in the same boat. Tim

After discussing my latest Legion of Honor finds with Bison, and the challenges often presented when trying to research and identify the different stamps on these ODM's, I thought I would start a reference type thread on marks specifically. Perhaps, if we get enough interest and input from the various members here, we could turn a working thread into a "sticky" and/or clean up a finished thread and eventually pin it to the top for easy reference. In the German areas of collecting, you have to be concerned with unscrupulous individuals that are lurking here on the forums to gain detailed information to incorporate into making better, more accurate fakes. However, the area of French ODM's is viewed differently. As Bison pointed out to me, these small, detailed marks are probably the utmost difficulty for fakers. Because of their size, they are not able to copy them easily and even if they succeeded in doing that, it is a far riskier endeavor for them because they in essence, are copying a state guarantee. This is a crime in France and is punishable by law in the same way that manufacturing fake money would be. Pehaps another way to view this therefore is, the best way to jeopardize fakers, is to disseminate information about these little marks. Anyway, I do not have a lot of answers on these marks personally and will need to rely on other's inputs as well but, I think we can get a good thread going here if we all chip in. I'll try to resize some PIC's later and start adding some as the day goes on. Feel free to comment and add any items of interest. If you know what the marks are and can describe what we are looking at, great! If not, and just want to know what something might be, post it and hopefully someone else can fill in the answers. Looking forward to seeing inputs!! Tim

Hi Bison! Oh, okay. Looking at the mark it sort of resembled a sword to me. What appears to be the hand guards must be just the scripted part of the letters R & J. So, do you think these pieces with this type wreath might be from the same maker, or were there others that utilized this style as well? Thanks again and another case in point of needing a good reference thread on maker's marks. Best, Tim

Just another variation with the ornate suspension hub. Other than that, appears to be the same as mine. Tim

As I can't figure out who the maker is now that the mark is gone, I was wondering if the "looping style wreath" might be a clue and consistent to a specific maker? Here's one previously posted by another collector in an old thread. He shows the mark (on the suspension ring) of the letters "R" "J" bordering an upright sword. Could it be the same here? Any other examples with this looping style wreath that has a known maker mark? Thanks! Tim

You can see where the diamond shape was stamped at one point, but it almost looks like the mark might have been ground or filed off. I assume that any finishing work would have normally been completed prior to stamping the maker's mark, but the toning on the area leads me to believe the mark has been gone for sometime now. Thoughts? Tim

Here's where the diamond mark on the left suspension arm is, or used to be... :unsure:

It has the Boar's Head for the silver guarantee mark on the front.

What makes this style a bit different from the usual ones is the wreath pattern. Notice the loops (top & bottom). Tim