Tim B

:off topic:

Okay, I know, but to close the loop and say thanks again to those that pointed the mistake out.

Finally found a nice one to put in the box. Enjoy!

Tim

Hello Demir!

Thank you for confirming that, as I too have pictures saved of pieces with enamel matching Godet and another one that was not marked at all. Still one that I need to get but, wanted to confirm what I was looking at here.

Tim :beer:

Hi Peter,

Yes, I see that and IMO means one of two things, either the die has become so worn and "tired" that the defects are starting to become painfully obvious, or it's a copy of the original.

Now, with that said, we have to ask a couple of questions.

How many of these (specific maker) type shields do we see? I personally do not see that many of this style when compared to say Deumer, JFS, Orth, or the more common "unknown" makers. So, if the die became so worn through use, then why don't we see more of this "what should be" common shield?

Second, and you know you can't always go off of a computer screen but need to hold the item in hand, but the details on the one you show appear weaker and softer than the one I compared it to. Yes, the general outline of the Krim coastline is identical, but looking at the edges, your piece seems less defined. So, again, is this a weak stamp from a worn out die, or a decent attempt to copy this shield? Play devil's advocate and say if it was a copy, then why don't we see more of them? I can't say, perhaps the quality of the first run didn't prove productive and it was scrapped.

Additionally, going off the PIC, your piece appears to made from brass sheet. Correct me here but, these were either zinc or steel sheet and bronze coated for a final finish. I don't think they were ever actually stamped in brass, were they?

Finally, the numbers are off and not just the "2". I personally think even a beat up shield would not have the numbers appearing this distorted. Again, I don't have it in hand, but I would hesitate owning it personally.

I meant to add that the background "sea area" appears pebbled on the one I show, where yours is rather plain looking.

All the Best my friend!

Tim

All very nice pieces Dieter! Congrats!!

Tim

Yes, I could only imagine what the price might have been had the piece been complete. He also sold a nice painted version for US $136.

It will be interesting to see if Hansen is the actual maker of the star or just the screw disk.

Tim

Oh, PM sent on the other issue.

You really got some beauties there Tim !

Please read your PM.

Hello Sasa!

Thank you for the compliments and PM; I responded as well.

Tim

Terry,

I don't want to hijack your thread or get too far off-topic but, I seen this piece on Detlev's last update and thought it was interesting as the screwback is marked "Hansen". Looking at the enamel patterns though, is closely resembles other makers. Do you have any that match? 9-rivets

Thoughts anyone?

Tim

Valter,

Many thanks for that information! I was kind of hoping along those lines, as then the Soviet piece I have should have been one of those awarded. I still see some of the Soviet made stars for sale, starting around 17000 but, this was the only one below 9000 that I have come across to date.

Now I understand why the price differences and lessor abundance of the silver and gold awards. Makes more sense.

Many thanks again guys!

Tim

Oh, here is one still for sale; good case in point. :unsure:

Outstanding stars!! Outstanding!!

Thanks for the compliments! Not as interesting as Turkish War Medals (Galipolli Star awards), but certainly cheaper!

Tim

I have a couple questions on these Partisan Stars.

An ebay seller that continually lists several of these 3rd class pieces, shows two different size serial numbers and makes a statement in the sales thread that only 10,000 of these were ever actually awarded, though more were made obviously.

Any idea where he arrived at the number 10,000 and does that number apply to just the 3rd class award or all three levels of Partisan Star awards?

Also, where do the Soviet produced stars come into play as their numbering system is different from Ikom's?

Tim :cheers:

Making it easier. :beer:

This ones for Peter.

Pete, I found this in my archive PICs that I saved on one of my CDs. It's an old PIC, but the same type shield you showed earlier in this thread (posts 66/67). Note some of the details are much better on this one and might serve to make a better determination on the one you show. Hope it helps!

Tim

Thank you Valter!

Yes, both stars are nice! Perhaps the flatter surface of the IKOM star makes it appear brighter. I made a comparison below, the Soviet one is actually a little darker in hand.

Enjoy!

Tim

This baby is virtually mint condition.

The enamel quality is not as nice as the Soviet made pieces but, the color seems to stand out better against the silver.

Now, to find some 2nd class.

Tim

Just kicking the thread back up with a recent addition.

Tim

Oh yeah the wifes cool....she wears her collection on her fingers so no problem.

Oh yea, I know that routine. I call it appeasing the natives!

Never wore half the stuff she had, only locked it up in the safe. Sounds like my collection!

Tim

I'm surprised they never considered a small hand-held laser or even a laser "pointer" type device as these can still temporarily blind you if they hit your eye. Could have been anyone onboard shining one. Happens once in awhile up here when some idiot flashes a plane landing at SeaTac and they usually find them afterwards.

Still, in this case, the man doesn't rate a Purple Heart Medal per the awards criteria. To award him one would, IMHO, degrade all the ones that are issued for those that earned them per instructions/regulations. But, that's my opinion.

As far as the VA claim goes, I don't understand why, with so much documention and legal action taking place, that the VA hasn't already acknowledged "something" happened to him that was "service-related" and after proper medical examination, acted on his disability claim; one way or the other? Sounds to me enough was, or should have been, documented in the guy's medical record prior to him retiring, so someone at the VA should have at least seen the entry during the screening process.

IMHO; - a disability percentage awarded for it-probably yes, if medically justified.

- a Purple Heart-No

Tim

Hi Phil,

Okay, but be careful what you're asking for... I can gladly help you spend your money, but your wife may not like me.

I assume this is the one you were referring to? Yes, outrageously priced as is the Demjansk; nice but not that nice and I agree that backing on the Narvik is not original (IMHO). All about the $$$$ now.

Tim

Oh, silver or gold? Luft or Heer?

Hi Rick,

Yes, this Nixon matrix, along with the matrix Laslo lists in his first edition on Victory Medals ("The Interallied Victory Medals of World War I") give about the same information. Both matrix are a great, easy, quick reference to the major units that qualified for the campaign bars but, for the complete listing, you need the reference below which breaks it down by campaign and/or units.

You can Google the title and download it free through Google Books, or buy it or one of the reprinted versions for $20. or less. Not bad if you're into US Vics from WWI.

Tim :cheers:

:cheeky:

Just as long as you don't start showing Cholms!!!

Tim

There you go, all about the same info on top of each other!

Tim

Hi Noor,

You should post this one in the "Rest of the World: Medals & History" section, as we already have a very long running thread on WW1 Victory Medals there.

There are publications available that specifically call out which units were entitled to the various clasps, per engagement, and you can download or purchase these references easy enough. With that said, the example you show does cross over to a few units, specifically, the US 26th Division, 41st FA (field artillery), and 42nd Division. There could be other units, but these are the major ones that have this combination of clasps.

Tim

Here's my example of the same award:

If all he is after is VA benefits, he doesn't need the Purple Heart Medal, just get the incident verified so it can be documented in his medical records and VA claim.

Here is the official requirements for Navy/Marine Corps personnel for the award of the Purple Heart (excerpt from SECNAVINST 1650.1H):

b. Eligibility Requirements.

Awarded to members of the Armed Forces of the United States who, while serving under competent authority in any capacity with an Armed Force of the United States after 5 April 1917, have been killed or wounded.

(1) In action against an enemy of the United States.

(2) In action with an opposing armed force of a foreign country, in which the Armed Forces of the United States are or have been engaged.

(3) While serving with friendly foreign forces engaged in an armed conflict against an opposing armed force, in which the United States is not a belligerent party.

(4) As the result of an act of any such enemy or opposing armed force.

(5) As the result of an act of any hostile foreign force.

(6) As the result of friendly weapons fire while actively engaging the enemy.

(7) As the indirect result of enemy action (e.g., injuries resulting from parachuting from a plane brought down by enemy or hostile fire.)

(8) As the result of maltreatment inflicted by their captors while a prisoner of war.

(9) After 28 March 1973, as a result of international terrorist attack against the U.S. or a foreign nation friendly to the U.S.

(10) After 28 March 1973, as a result of military operations while serving outside the territory of the United States, as part of a peacekeeping force.

c. An individual must have been wounded either as a direct or indirect result of enemy action. A "wound" is defined as an injury to any part of the body from an outside force or agent, sustained while in action as described in the eligibility requirements. A physical lesion is not required, provided the concussion or other form of injury received was a result of the action in which engaged.

d. Except in the case of a prisoner of war, the wound for which the award is made must have required treatment by a medical officer at the time of injury. Only one award is authorized for more than one wound or injury received at the same instant, from the same missile, force, explosion, or agent. Prisoners of war, if entitled, will be limited to a single Purple Heart covering the entire period of their captivity.

---

As you can see, there is no justification here for the award. He was not "engaged" in actions against a hostile force and, per para (d), did not require medical attention at the time of injury. Pretty cut & dried IMHO.

Tim :cheers:

Hi Andrei!

You have some really nice and interesting shields there. The attachment pin setups on a couple of these are making me rethink my opinions in regards to setting any timelines on manufacture. Thank you for posting these examples!

Tim

Peter,

Any chance you get to show that beauty off, and knowing full well that Phil doesn't have one of these yet!

Beautiful!

Tim