Tim B

Nice looking pin and it's two-piece construction. Looks silver covered brass/bronze with a copper "Soissons" clasp.

Tim

Hi Rob and everybody else!

Rob, here's another case in point to variations encountered. This CdG is the 1915 type and has a bronze star attached. Interestingly, an unknown "Soissons" badge is pinned to the ribbon. The ribbon does show some evidence of other holes that may indicate the badge was moved down a bit (perhaps for a better look?) or, some other attachment had been there before.

The battle of Soissons was actually in 1918, so for this (unit badge/battle commemorative)pin to be placed on a 1915 medal, might indicate the member received the CdG early on and then fought at Soissons. Or, someone just added it after the fact, knowing I'm a sucker for different things!

Tim

No problems Doc,

Really posted for anyone interested. No idea how flexible on the price or how soon she wants/needs to move them; I didn't really ask too much. Anyone interested, just let me know.

Tim :cheers:

Really a beautiful piece as the gold has started to tone in places to an almost rose color at the top of the crown to a deep yellow on other places! If you like toned coins, it's almost the same coloration you see on Morgan silver dollars.

Wish I could repair that enamel chip though.

Front & Back: Ribbon has really faded on the front. Also, the top of the ribbon has a "rivet"? in the top; you can see the two prongs and the other side is a brass ball type head. Is this something that was used when mounting the medal? The case had a spare "two-prong" pin, typical of the issue mounting device, but it was loose in the case.

Tim

Nobody else have Leopold I's they want to show off?

Well, here's another one. Case has some minor water damage/stain, but the structural integrity is still good. Must have had other boxes stacked on it as the shadows remain; kind of cool.

I read this is a gilded silver piece. At first, I thought D'Argent might be a manufacturer, but believe this is just the bilingual equivilent as it appears each line is stated twice.

It does have a couple enamel chips on the reverse; a couple minor leaf segments and of course, the left lower cross tip. Is there anyway to repair enamel? Dried enamel model paint perhaps!?

Tim

Not a Wolfer's but the quality is very nice and it's heavy!

Enjoy!

Last one; I can't read French, so no idea how good or how well the material is. Let me know if you need more information.

Tim :cheers:

.

Oh!

I better state that I am presenting this here as the thread asked about Belgian ODM references, but... If this is considered a type of "sales thread" I may be violating some club rules and this is not my intent.

Let me know if it is and I can remove the material or move it to the appropriate sales area, though again, this is not my material for sale.

Tim

A little late in coming, but with everyones work schedules and ...

Here's some PICS as promised and again the seller states the price is 100 Euros with shipping included. She has two books available.

I am not directly involved with the sale. So, if interested, PM or email me and I will send you her contact information and you can deal with her directly. Really nice lady.

Tim

Hello Thomas!

Welcome to the discussion!!

Nice mini's and you're right, as her nose isn't much to talk about on the regular size pieces either!

Tim

Just an update here. The seller left the camera at work and will email some PICS this week, which I will post here and the price being asked is 100.00 EUROS (shipping included). She has two books available. That's all I know for now.

Tim

On this Medaille du Feu, I know they came in bronze and silver but, were there also gold versions?

Tim

Great collection Tim! Do you have any others?

I am yet to add any sheilds to my small TR collection, but they have always been a favourite

Hi,

Yes, I have several; these are just a sample of the different type shields I have.

Tim

Hi Rob,

Well, certainly not what would be considered "official" but, as we have seen on several period originals, there appears lots of room for variation.

Could be a period-done enhancement by the member for one reason or another; lack of the official attachment, addition of some unit badge or memento of rememberance, or nothing more than a veteran embellishing his award. Either way, a nice medal with an interesting and unique piece of history.

Tim

Hi,

I am guessing various makers over a long period of time.

Best

Chris

Hi Chris!

Yes, as I collect more and more of the French and Belgian pieces, I am starting to believe the variations in the different awards are only a case of different manufacturers. Other than minor die flaws (dirty dies apparently), I am not seeing any real progression in die traits or evidence of reworked dies on items here, like we do see in the German WWII area of collecting.

The three "types" of 1918 CdG I posted above appear to be the only variations that I have been seeing thus far, so perhaps there were only these three different variations or manufacturers of these awards?

Tim

Hi Rob,

My guess on your CdG, is that perhaps the star was replaced at one point with whatever the member could find available. The original attachments had pretty flimsy pins and often broke off if not handled appropriately.

Orignal pins/palms are not always easy to find, so perhaps just a attempt to put a star back on. Is there any evidence of two small pin holes close to each other under the current screwback?

Tim :cheers:

Hello Thomas!

Welcome to the discussion and like Rob says, we're just collectors here and obviously Rob and Kevin have more knowledge on these than I do, so like you, I consider myself still learning.

Now, let's see some of your collection; don't be shy as I'm sure Rob would like to see others beside his own and mine for a change. You might be surprised how infectious it becomes once a couple of others start to show their pieces.

Tim

Hi Tim,

Regarding the ribbon you posted saying that it is the new copy ribbon used for the WW1 Italian Victory medals I must say that I agree with you only about the fact that it is new but I have never seen it here in Italy.

Hi Lilo,

No, what I was saying about this modern ribbon, is that it is one appearing often on ebay from one particular seller in Germany that continually lists Victory Medals for sale and this style ribbon is used on almost all the ones he sells, many of which are Italian medals by the different manufacturers. I have seen this material on other auctions from time to time as well, but this German seller uses it on almost all his items.

I do not believe the ribbon common to Italy, just one that is being used to sell the medals. I have also been told that this particular seller is "suspected" to be faking the medals themselves, but to this, I do not know and cannot confirm. The medal I received was original with this fake modern ribbon, though it was not 100% original, in "mint" condition, as described/shown in the auction PICS.

Regards,

Tim :beer:

I have several more, posted in the thread on WW1 Victory Medals in the "Rest of the World Militaria" section, so I won't double-post all of them here.

I will post this one as it's really nice and this is the appropriate place to show it off.

Tim

Not the same as looking directly at the piece under glass, but the best I can do here.

Tim

Hi All,

FYI, the ribbon from which the Victory medals shown by members Darrell and ilja559 is the correct, more common and first issued with this medal. After the war another type (a little different) was used to substitute the first when it was broken.

Lilo

Hi,

In my opinion, the medal Darrell shows in posts 1 & 2 has a modern replaced ribbon and the colors are NOT correct. The other piece Darrell shows in post #4, as well as those other pieces shown are original, period ribbons.

Here is another original Italian Victory Medal with a modern replaced ribbon. I know it's replaced as I conducted a burn test and examined it under high resolution magnification and you can see the modern synthetic material. It is commonly sold by one ebay seller out of Germany.

Tim

Well stated Rob!

Collecting German items for several years, you can see that even some of the old fakes from the 70's are still fooling new collectors today, but some of the fakes are getting so good now, that unless you really study the die flaws of both original as well as fake items, you're only asking to get burned.

Reference books, forums such as this, and the ability to handle items is paramount in areas where fakes are as large a market as originals; true wherever money is to be made. I personally prefer the forums more than books now, as you can post good detailed PICS online and ask other collectors out there what they think; let's face it, nobody knows or can know everything about everything and authors are no exception. Reference books, such as Laslo's book on Victory Medals, are often the sole reference or best reference on a subject and as Rob stated, eventually become outdated or incomplete. That disadvantages the collector as they lose a certain amount of updated information.

Don't get me wrong, books are great and in the area of German items (as an example), some of the more recent references coming out are exceptional with detailed information and pictures of various manufacturer's pieces, as well as fakes on the market and what to look for. Still, mistakes happen and information is still coming out that will one day make the book incomplete or inaccurate. Besides, the publishing costs these days make most, good reference books easily over the $100.00 mark. Multiply that by several books and you have to ask yourself if it's worth the value. Of course, saving yourself from buying that one fake that would have cost +$1000. will of course justify the expense!

As technology advances in areas of digital photography, internet, and more information coming out from various collectors worldwide, the knowledge base is increasing and the available reference material out there is much more than say, 15-20 years ago. With that, those that make money by manufacturing reproductions and selling them as originals also gain from those advancements, but you can't stop it. Those people buy the books, join the forums and often mingle in our midst's disguised as ordinary collectors. I know more than one forum where these guys hang out and learn how to tell good from bad and the concensus is to leave them on knowing who they are, or chance kicking them off and then they come back under a different name. So, they out there and you're not going to get rid of them. All you can do is keep informed, help out those that ask questions and keep up on the bad guys and their wares.

Hey, the good news is that these other areas are not as bad as the WWII German items, but you still need to know what you're looking at. I just wish more people would post their items and get into the discussions and asking questions. We all learn more that way.

Tim

Hello,

I do like to collect different campaign shields and notice there are not many threads discussing them other than the very popular Narvik thread in the Kriegsmarine forum. Are they of interest to anyone else here?

Tim

Hi Gunner!

Well, don't appear to be that many with numbers under 8000. Do we want to start a sepatate thread on those over 8000 yet?

Tim