Tim B

I should be getting some PICS of the book mentioned above and a price sometime this week. If interested at that point, let me know and I can put you in contact with the seller.

Oh, I don't need no stinking books, I have you guys here to torment!! :lol:

Okay, thanks guys!

I assume, by the lack of any negative comments, that all the shown variations are in fact genuine period type palms?

The Type 4 at the bottom will soon be one of the items arriving at my door; not especially keen on the palm style, but I have seen a gold palm of the same design on a Belgian WW1 CdG as well. But hey, it's an ART 4 w/palm!

Tim

It's really interesting at the wide variety of ribbon colors for these medals (all countries) over the years; almost makes it a separate avenue of collecting in it's own right.

Here's one I missed sometime back (unofficial Type 3A in the center). Beautiful ribbon! I am still looking for a nice "official" one of these BTW!

Tim

Hi Kevin,

Yes, I have seen this guy's auctions as well and you can see several items are "questionable" at best. He isn't the only one and another big crook is in Germany as alluded to earlier in this thread. That guy also shows original pieces and then sends a different piece or sometimes a fake altogether; so it is buyer beware. Bottom line: know who you are dealing with and pay in a manner that you can get your money refunded if necessary.

It really does no long-term good to notify potential bidders/buyers on ebay, as some don't bother to research anything for themselves and often turn right around and notify the seller that "YOU" just emailed them telling them the item was no good (lets say-not as described). The seller black lists you and reports you to ebay for interfering with their auction (of which ebay and paypal get a percentage of on the sale), then under ebay's rules, you get suspended or possibly banned altogether and if that's not enough, the seller can try to take you to court for damages.

There are other cases where some unscrupulous people who are interested in the auction will tell the "competition" anything to get them to lose interest, or even convince the seller what they have is not genuine either. I actually seen this happen on a Thai Victory Medal auction once! Luckily the seller, which was affiliated with a Thai museum, didn't fall for it. And then, there is the old case where I almost had an original German RK for less than $50. when the seller thought it was a simple EK2, then another buyer ... well, we won't go there.

Believe me, I've dealt with ebay over the years in just about every aspect of what could go wrong with a sale and they will try to help you in those specific situations, but rarely do they take drastic action against a seller, as they are the one providing the direct income. I once had a Turkish seller offer me a 2nd chance offer on a really nice Turkish Star; then someone must have emailed him offering him more money as he took my money, then asked for an additional $100. after telling me the item would be mailed. I got ebay involved and they suspended him from selling for 6 months to a year, not sure exactly how long as thier policy is not to discuss or divulge "punishment". They just want you happy so you keep coming back!

Bottom line, making money, not good intentions is what ebay is interested in and, ask yourself; Do we really want the ebay police getting more deeply involved in our hobby? They have already started putting conditions on sellers that sell old coins and militaria as far as insurance and postal tracking requirements, which add to buyer's overall costs, but do add to the safety of the transaction; I would not want them to simply say one day that because of the nature of the collecting field and the "market" for fakery in this area, that these items will no longer be allowed.

Anyway, good to see OMSA at least looking at the issue!

Tim

<!--quoteo(post=326210:date=Mar 12 2009, 03:14 :name=Riley1965)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Riley1965 @ Mar 12 2009, 03:14 ) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=326210"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Is there a book you can recommend?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

<b><i><!--fonto:Tahoma--><span style="font-family:Tahoma"><!--/fonto--><!--coloro:#8b0000--><span style="color:#8b0000"><!--/coloro-->Hello Doc,

The best book I've come across is in French language only ... "Les Distinctions Honorifiques de la Belgique" by the late Andr? Born?. I used it as the basis for my website :-)

Cheers,

Hendrik<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--fontc--></span><!--/fontc--></i></b>

I know a seller that has a second copy of "LES ORDRES DE CHEVALERIE DE LA BELGIQUE DE 1830 A NOS JOURS" by H. QUINOT. I am not sure how good the reference is or how much they are expecting to get for it, but I can ask if anyone is interested. I believe it's in French only.

Tim

Here's a simple question; I've noticed different style palm devices for the Albert era awards and want to know are these differences simply due to manufacturers, or is there a pattern due to time period or specific types for specific awards?

Here's some examples that I've come across:

The silver ones on top are virtually the same with very minor differences. I see these types mostly on the Art 4 and Leopold I decorations, sometimes on the Croix de Guerre's (in bronze of course) and they are cut out much more than the other types.

The Art 4 medals seem to have a wide variety and I wonder if they relate to the different patterns (in relation to the type of "A") of that medal?

Any ideas?

Tim

Rob,

Excellent and thanks for posting those. I really like that MID on the VIC.

I think I missed out on a recent ebay piece that I thought might have been, but the detail just wasn't there. Oh well, now I know what to look for.

Tim

Hi Rob,

Was posting PICs over on the Belgian side; another realitively quiet avenue. Oh well, hard to say but, you never know who just joins or comes on and makes the whole difference to the forum or discussion. Until then--more beer for us!

Been a good day here; just picked up a very nice cased Leopold I (Civil Division) with gold striped borders for acts of bravery during WW1. Had a nice detailed mini as well. Also got a very nice and harder to find Krim (Maedicke) on KM backing and in better shape than normally seen. So, all in all; not a bad day.

Tim

Close-up.

Enjoy, I know I do; a real treat for me.

Tim

Here's the mini; also marked for Wolfers. :cheers:

Even the lion has great detail to it and is separately applied. You can just see the center bar between the body and tail where it inserts into the black enamel.

Another shot close-up. These really have nice quality workmanship and in this case, virtually no enamel damage! :jumping:

The reason I'm asking is that the Order is a Wolfers product if I'm not mistaken.

Tim

Thought I would add another one for viewing. This is a very nice example of a Leopold I, Civil Division issued for bravery during WWI. The gold stripes on the borders are woven similar to the Leopold II posted earlier. Without a gold star, the person was not mentioned in the orders of the day, but still recognized for a gallant act during wartime.

Here's a question; Notice the case is marked by DeGreef; were they a manufacturer or just a retail supplier? The term "Fabricant" tells me they manufactured pieces as well as sell them.

Tim

Can't quite make this one out? Something that says this piece is cast by...? co.depose

.

Thought I would add a couple close-up PICS of the cufflink and update the thread a bit.

I received a few more examples and am still waiting on two more plus need to find another one similar to the one posted by Rob a few posts back. Are there any more variations out there? Let's see them if they exist!

So far I still only see one Type 3; are there more?

Tim

Here's that cufflink again:

Mervyn,

Thanks again for the additional information!

Tim

I am always surprised to see singles sell for about the same prices as the cased ones.

Nice thing about the Japanese pieces; they can still be found in great shape and often cased!

Tim

Thanks again to all!

Tim

Kevin,

Being in Romania, just how hard is it to find period originals in decent condition these days? I am really looking for one or two "official" versions with nice ribbons. Any clues on availabilty and pricing?

Really nice to have other collectors that enjoy these medals as much as I do (more actually)!

Tim :beer:

Rob,

Very nice document! I missed two Greek Victory Medal certificates a couple years ago, both matching and in near mint condtion. I didn't realize then just how rare they really were.

Tim

Names under the bridge?

Hello Mervyn,

Yes, I never liked the term "medal" as I associate that with something hanging from a ribbon or pinned to the uniform as well but, the term "table medal" appears popular in various areas, so I use that.

I'm not sure on where the piece is made, Jeff stated he thought a company in New Jersey produced it for sale to veterans, which is entirely possible, I honestly don't know, but the signature "M. Lordonnois, 1919" is stamped in the lower right corner on the obverse and with the French style cross on the reverse bottom, I assumed it was produced in France.

I have never seen a "exact title or name" to this item, so it could be just a souvenir of sorts from that time. I meant to add that the medal is stamped on the edge with "Bronze" but no other maker's stamp that I see. Most I have, usually have the Monnaise de Paris mint mark (cornocopia) next to the bronze stamp, but this one does not, so I assume it was not one of their products. Was France the only country to stamp "Bronze" on the edges?

As far as the landmarks/battle areas. The ones listed on the right; Verdun, Argonne, St. Mihiel were certainly areas the Amercians fought in and I think the Chateau Thierry area as well. Not sure of the others; Soissons, Riems, Bois-Belleau. Also, I am not sure of the two names below the ends of the bridge; are they place names/battles or possible manufacturer/designer names? Depose (L) and Studer ??? ®. You alluded that Studer was a possible French manufacturer?

Again, appreciate the comments and answers!

Tim