Tim B

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Got off my butt and took some PICS of mine today. Never been into communist stuff too much, but I can already see that the "stars" are going to hook me!

3rd Class Partisan Star; Mondvor; Ser#: 8975

Enjoy!

Tim

I don't collect Red Cross medals normally but, I came across this one recently and thought it was a standard "Member's" medal from the 1904-05 Russian Campaign period. Even had the Meiji style bow ribbon for what I thought was the lapel device.

Once it arrived however, I noticed two things that puzzled me on it.

First, the bow is attached to the suspension ribbon. Actually sewn on and appears in the same original color thread. My first thoughts were, was this done just to keep the two pieces together until the member could get a pin for the bow? If so, was this practice normal?

The second thing that I thought odd, was the medal "coin" is made out of aluminum, not silver or other metal. I thought that aluminum medals were made during the 1930's and then I started to ask exactly what am I looking at? Unfortunately, there just isn't very much good thorough information out there on these Red Cross medals, or at least I haven't found any.

Any help here?

Tim

It's a very nice Belgium WW1 War Cross with palm.

I have a nice War Cross like that but the palm is missing...

Any idea where I might find one?

TacHel,

I'll keep my eyes open as I search for a gilt one that I need for a Leopold I; appreciate the same if you get lucky!

Tim :beer:

Wow! I can't believe this thread is over two years old without any additions but, I need some help here. I did something I don't like to do very often and that's buy something I don't know much about.

Albanian Partisan Star, First Class. Looks correct compared to the pictures I can find of them; has the parenthesis around the top star tip and the dimples on the reverse. Do the dimples look correct? Looks great and I can't wait to get it in hand.

Did I do good?

Appreciate any comments!

Tim

Well I received the Cross and must say, it is as beautiful in hand as the PICS allude to. And, the size comparisons are pretty close as well.

Tim

I remember when we got the Saudi medals for Gulf 1, guys in the regiment were insisting that the middle part was in solid gold...

Hope always stays strong... ;-)

Yea, I remember hearing that BS too! Had all the guys anxiously awaiting their medals to arrive and when they finally showed up, the rumor was only the first initial ones that went to high-ranking individuals, then the rumors they got swapped; it never ends... I'll say this; if any of them were with solid gold centers, the actual gold amount would be so small, it wouldn't be worth squat anyway.

Tim

Thank you for the reply!

Yes, understand we don't live in a perfect world and many of these historical pieces, or the actual history behind each one lost over time due to missing records, etc. Appears to be common in so many areas of collecting.

Tim :beer:

So again, exactly how does this numbering system work if the awards were handed out non-sequentially? I have a 3rd Class Mondvor with a ser #: 8975, which would allude to being towards the front end going from the above list, but how can you really know? What happened to the first 8000+ awards?

Tim

Not sure if anyone is interested; found this site/forum as I was searching other items of interest.

http://pages14-18.mesdiscussions.net/

Tim

Thomas,

Not sure of the center (Zaire) piece; something I just don't have knowledge on. The other two look okay; the 14-18 CdG has it's palm upside down, but I have seen a few like this, so..? The ribbon may have been replaced, I don't know. Search these threads for more info.

The one on the right is actually a Belgian CdG which also looks okay to me.

Tim

Thomas,

Imo, and I am not the authority here on Belgian awards, all three appear original and the Leopold II and Crown Orders appear to be WWI related. I suppose the Leo II (unilingual) could be WWII. Keep in mind that they are in essence, long service awards and may have been awarded years later. The crossed swords indicate a WWI veteran and the Albert palm indicates war service related (mentioned in dispatches).

I don't know enough on the third one to make an informed comment and will leave that one to someone else. Look nice!

Tim

Hi Dieter,

Well, considering we see so many near pristine Japanese awards and documents for sale all the time is a testament that some things did in fact survive the war and in decent shape. I know when I was stationed in Yokosuka back in the 1990's, I would talk to communication types that worked up "on the hill" that said all kinds of stuff WWII related was still being found in various underground tunnels in and around the area. I know they were doing a lot of underground construction at the time I ws getting short, so who knows how many of these underground facilities there were spread throughout the country?

Has to be something, maybe nothing more than a booklet or a notice sent from the mint to one of the distributors with a list of names and authorized marks similar to what the Germans did with LDO numbers. You would think anyway.

Tim

There always has to be "something" left; it couldn't have all been destroyed. Records would have been duplicated to some point and some records probably exist somewhere. The problem is (only my opinion and don't mean sh1t), this is virtually a non-priority for anyone in government that might have access to records and then, where do you start?

Who cares about something that is half a centrury old already and of a time that most current population could honestly care less about or want to forget. One day, some old guy cleaning out some storage shelf in some old government building will come across some old archive documents and by chance someone else that collects, or knows someone who does, will "discover" the ultimate source of information. Until then, unless someone with a buddy that could authorize access and have a lot of time on their hands to really DIG for this information, it will not happen.

Again, only expressing my view. Government is government, doesn't matter what country we're talking about.

Tim

Thanks Scott!

The good and the bad; good, it may re-ignite my interest in Spanish awards, the bad...obvious. I always did want a Meybauer SC among other things. I'll never be rich.

Tim :cheers:

Yes, but I guess it comes down really to what "you're" into. For me, it varies, but the majority of coins I like to collect these days are Morgan silver dollars. They have great eye appeal, are relatively old, quite a large coin (bigger is better! ) and they have a lot of variety within the series. SOME are still relatively cheap, though some are not by any means.

The common coins today just don't make it for me, though I did collect the full set of state quarters and still get the annual Walking Liberty Dollar. Overall though, the quality in design is just not what it used to be; same can be said on military awards honestly.

Of course, these are nice... :rolleyes:

Many thanks again, all good information!

Tim

While I have you hostage here...

I had always considered my Red Military Merit Cross of Spanish Civil War era (I know it's Franco period), just of different manufacture compared to the typical ones with the MM on the reverse. However, after comparing the crown styles on both of these, I wonder if it is a bit later, perhaps WWII.

Tim

NOTE: These may not be correctly sized to one another as I cut & pasted the two separate photos.

..

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I have seen these before offered in plain cardboard type boxes, but this is the first one I have seen in years in an actual maker marked case.

Tim

reverse:

Dolfek,

Many thanks for the correction; the seller was calling it a Spanish Cross of War and I understood it to be the lower ranks version of the War Cross; just forgot the WAR part in my typing the title.

The seller was under the impression that some German soldiers might have been awarded this, but I don't see how that was possible. I know there were Blue Division Spainards that received the EK during their service on the Eastern Front, but even for Germans that were serving alongside, would they have been awarded this? I didn't think so but, not 100% sure here.

Thanks again!

Tim

Here's some more PICS:

The crown is actually separate and riveted on.

Hmmmmmm

Thoughts - Anybody else?

Tim

Sorry: Mis-named the title which should read...

1942 Spanish War Cross for Enlisted

I am waiting on this one in the mail, but it looks to be a beauty!

Two quick questions:

1) Was this awarded to Spanish personnel only, and only during WWII (I/E: Spanish Blue Division)?

2) I think this rates above the Red Military Merit Cross in order of precedence, correct?

Okay, technically 3 questions.

Thanks!

Tim