cimbineus

2009 is the 20th anniversary of the beginning of the end of Communist rule in a lot of the eastern satellite countries. On May the 2nd 1998, Hungarain Border Guards started removing the fences defining their borders with Austria...

Hi Gents,

I would like to share with you some photographs of an original and authentic piece of the so called Iron Curtain. It is interesting, that this box was made still in communist times and used as presents. Just imagine the face of a General of the Soviet Armed Forces receiving this kind of "farewell present".

Here is the box and its content:

Regards,

cimbineus

I think it was stolen from the Mint before silver plating.

Hi Gents,

Yes, this can be one possibility, but there are some others too. For example, this medal was awarded not only as medal, but as plaque as well. Some of those were like this one, but without the ring for the ribbon, of course. It is not excluded that simply a mistake happened, and the two pieces were mixed up. Or, during the production some medals avoided the phase of silver plating and the quality control did not notice that. Perhaps, there are some other options as well, but this medal is here, anyway, as a curiosity.

Regards,

cimbineus

Hi Gents,

I must admit, I do not like this medal at all. I think that besides the politics and the philosophy behind, it is extremely militant and ill in its message, elementary or even primitive in design, simplistic in finish, to tell the least. But, nevertheless, this is also an HPR medal and, I think, it is interesting for you to see two rare variants. In this picture, in the upper row you can see the two usual pieces. Below there are the two interesting variations.

Regards,

cimbineus

... and the same medal with an "artistic" approach:

...and here is a closer look:

Hi Gents,

Let me add one more nice medal, a 25 years Long Service Medal of the first type.

Regards,

cimbineus

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To my knowledge the case as showin in post #5 is the style for the flood medal during the time of the HUPR.

Yes, exactly, that is the box for the HPR Flood Medals.

OK, so the earliest ones are red cases and the late one(s) are the blue case?

I know the site, hence the question ;>)

Well, as far as I know, only the very last type of the flood medal is in blue box, but that medal does not fall under this topic, I think, since that was established after the fall of the previous regime and not in the HPR times.

Hi Cimbineus

... Are you 100% certain it is bakelite? Is the reverse heavy or light? ... ... In the 1920's & 30's was widely used in consumer goods. ...

Hi Yankee,

No, I am not 100% certain about it yet, just thinking aloud. I am sorry, but I cannot answer the "heavy or light" question. What do you mean by that?

To my best knowledge, bakelite already was used earlier than the '20s. Already befor the Great War there were buttons and handles for different small articles (like combs and hair brushes, for example) made of bakelite, as far as I know.

Regards,

cimbineus

Gordon,

Let me give you a peek. Just for you... (This is the recent and not necessarily the final design of the book-cover.)

Regards,

cimbineus

Very nice finds! There are some real gems in there Rick! I love the floral pattern scuff plates. Not seen to often. Now you need 4th, 3rd, 2nd and 1st classes -

Hi Gents,

Let me add one more version to our Merit Order case bottoms collection, a „Christmas gift wrap"-type pattern.

Regards,

cimbineus

Correct blue case??

To my best knowledge, the case of this medal is red cardboard box, with red silk inside.

cimbineus,

These are great badges. I haven't seen the first three before. I would love to own a set like that.

On another note. How is is your book coming along?

Regards,

Gordon

I agree with you, Gordon. These are extremely rare badges, especially the first and the last ones.

As far as the book is concerned, I have to admit that the work came to halt. Other things got in front of the book writing temporarily, but I will continue soon.

Regards,

cimbineus

... and here is the second one:

Hi Gents,

I also would like to contribute to this interesting discussion, if I may. As a result of an "accident" I am in a position to share with you two photographs. My hope is that they will help us to answer the question about material. The word "PATENT" and the fact that bakelite was invented between 1907 and 1909 suggest me that the white material is most probably bakelite, after all. If this assumption is correct, we can set a time frame too, which would start in 1909 (the year when bakelite was patented) and 1918, the fall of the Austro-Hungarian Empire.

Regards,

cimbineus

Here is the first photograph:

whoa!!! Awesome. Those look very early.

Is there a book on the Kivalo badges at all?

That series consists of six badges (cart, road roller/steamer, tram, car, ship and excavator). Yes, indeed, those were quite early badges, especially if you look at the cart as a means of transportation of those times ...

Yes, there is a book on those badges, issued in 1997, but was sold out immediately. It is impossible to get a copy nowadays.

... or another example:

("EXCELLENT WORKER OF TRANSPORTATION" - two versions)

Here is an example from 1948, "FOR QUALITATIVE WORK - BSZKRT" (Budapest's public transportation company at that time):

There are enough versions of this badge to rate it as a collection in itself. Suggest you search this forum- you'll be surprised at how many there are. I was.

My modest estimation is that the number of Hungarian "KIVALO" badges (only civilian ones!) is close to 1,000 including different types and versions. Some of those extremely rare. For example, you can find easier an Order of the Banner of the HPR than a "KIVALO KOMBEJNVEZETŐ" (Excellent Combiner) badge.

cimbineus

... the orders and decorations of the Hungarian People's Republic were made by the one source of the State Mint. They held all the dies and used them accordingly. It is certainly plausable that the State Mint made these post 1990, but there is no certain way to tell as the dies and the materials are readily available to them during this entire time. If there were post (and there certainly may have been) 1990 strikes of these Hero awards they have controlled production to still make these awards quite rare and hard to come by. ...

Yes indeed, this was the case. Everything was in one hand and there was no fair control over the State Mint. Just two examples: Military people usually have several different dresses but only one set of awards. In Hungary there is (and there was!) no way to obtain a second or third set of awards. You have the only piece you were awarded. But it is so inconvenient to move those orders and medals from one uniform to another, so, the high ranking officers applied for second and third sets sometimes, and with certain permissions the State Mint reproduced the orders or medals even decades after the official termination of their production. I know some cases when the different degrees of the Order of the HPR were reproduced as late as mid '80s.

Or, even worst, when Pál Losonczi, the forth President of the Presidential Council (the President) of the HPR ordered to reproduce different classes of the Kossuth Order in the '70s. You can meet those shiny pieces quite often even today, with plastic on them instead of enamel. According to some memorials, he presented those reproductions as gifts to local escort people during his trips to different countries.

cimbineus

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Here is one more interesting badge: "STRIFE FOR SECONDS - FOR PEOPLE" - says the inscription.

Yeah! I am jealous-

here's a pic. Hunyadi sent me years ago...

The man in this picture is a well-known frontrunner of the socialist labour movement in Hungary. His name is Ignác Pióker. During his active life he gained practically all the Hungarian orders and medals which could be awarded for labour achievements. He was born in 1907 at that time in Hungary, but after the Trianon tragedy his place of birth went to Romania. Later he defected to Hungary and settled down in Budapest. He worked as metal-worker. He introduced several new methods and procedures of working on different machines and as a result he became the Hungarian "Stahanov", frontrunner worker. From 1949 medals and orders started flowing to him like water. He was a member of the Hungarian Parliament from 1953 to 1985, and a member of the Presidential Council from 1975. He died in 1988.

In a word:

WOW!

Is this medal ever reproduced? It is very rare. CD-any chance there's an award roster of these ?

Hi Gents,

There have not been any reproductions, and it would be quite impossible to make them, I think, since these early (1956/57) Orders of the Banner of the HPR are made of silver with all necessary hallmarks of those times. Have a look, please: