cimbineus

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"MERITORIOUS ARTIST OF THE HPR" - 1950 - variation No 1.

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Just a photograph...

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Just a photograph...

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Very nice example - first one that I have seen with the case! Now if we could find some formal documents Question on the case - what does the bottom scuff plate look like and is there a recess in the face of the interior for the ribbon bar? (is there anything you dont have from the HUPR?)

Yes, there is a recess for the ribbon bar. Photographs will came soon. I will show the case in more details in some days, may be tomorrow. Unfortunately, I have no documents for these kind of early awards. I admit, I have never payed any special attention to this question which I regret today... (The only exception is Diplomas for "KIVÁLÓ" badges.) I concentrated almost all my attention on the items and cases.

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Nice pictures! Thanx!

Thanks a lot Tolya.

Here you can see all stars of the Order from 1st to 4th degrees:

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... and a closer look at the ribbon with the miniature:

... its interesting case:

... its back:

This is a relatively scarce Hungarian medal too:

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...and here are the 1st and 2nd degrees side by side:

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Gents,

Here is a compilation assisting you in comparing sizes of the miniatures on the ribbons.

cimbineus

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Colonel Oveshnikov Aleksandr

Hi ilja559,

This is a very nice photograph! And as always, Soviet officers/generals (incorrectly) wear both, the Order and the Medal with the miniature for "causal" outfit too. They like "luster" very much ...

cimbineus

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Another photo of backs of these awards. One has no number at all!

Gents,

As far as I know, those without "1949" on the back were produced later and those are stage-properties, specially made for theaters and movie shootings.

cimbineus

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... and the other one:

cimbineus

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cimbinius,

Great photos of some rare medals. Would you please post a picture of the interior of the boxes. I have one colour but not the other. Were there boxes in different colours for each of these medals? If so, can you please tell me which colour box went with which medal.

Regards,

Gordon

Gordon,

Thanks for your kind words. To my best knowledge, yes, there were both types of boxes for both, the Order and the Medal too.

As requested, here is one box:

cimbineus

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cimbineus,

Superb pictures of badges I don't think I have ever seen before. I expcet they will be in your next book?

Regards,

Gordon

Thank you, Gordon. You can see these badges in the first addition (1997) of my book too, in the "Agriculture" chapter. (pp. 123-153)

cimbineus

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The Hungarian MOTHERHOOD ORDERS and MEDALS:

Giving birth to 6 to 11 children.

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... and:

"ÁLLATGONDOZÓ" - animal keeper

"ÁLLATTENYÉSZTŐ" - rancher/stockman

QUOTE (Ulsterman @ Dec 15 2008, 17:30 ) Another beauty!!

Another badge to look for too.

Do you know when it was instituted?

Thanks for showing us.

Hello all,

My guess is that this badge was instituted in the very early 50s, perhaps before 1953, because in '53 and '54 two series of agricultural "KIV?L?" badges were instituted, end this type never appeared after that, it became obsolete I think.

Regards,

cimbineus

Gents,

Here are some "KIVÁLÓ" badges from those series I mentioned above, from agriculture:

"KERTÉSZ" - gardener/horticulturist

"NÖVÉNYTERMELŐ" - agrarian/farmer (who grows plants)

cimbineus,

Medals/orders etc. made with the original dies/tools after the period of award or after the orignal ones were made are referred to in English as "restrikes". There is always a difference of opion among collectors as to whether these "restrikes" are originals or not. Since there is usually no way to tell those made before or after the fact when the original dies/tools are used it is up to the buyer to try and work that out for themselves just exactly what they are.

Robert Souval of Vienna made a lot of Third Reich awards after the end of WWII using the original dies/tools they used to make the same awards during the war. Unless the material used to may the awards changed or the dies/tools become cracked there was no way to tell pre-May 1945 awards from post May 1945 awards.

Regards,

Gordon

Gordon,

Thanks for the vocabulary. I fully agree with everything you say. I can add that not only the collectors but the experts are also divided in this respect...

Regards,

cimbineus

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Gents,

Just to continue, here are the "KIVÁLÓ" badges for Signal Troops:

What was the year that the note was released questioning the Hungarian justification of creating these awards. From the US perspective - I have a good reason as to why and I wonder if it coincides? Are you also explaining that the example I posted is perhaps a reproduction?

Based on different sources that presumably happened in 1969 or in 1970, but the country concerned was not the USA. As far as I know that was France (90%) or Sweden (10%).

No, I did not suggest anything like that. A simply tried to worn all of you about an existing danger bumping into fake medals of that kind. (And, please, remember: the more colourful the story, the bigger the danger!)

Most probably those lose pieces were produced later, but in most of the cases with the original tools at the National Mint in Budapest in the early '90s. That is why one cannot make any differences between them. (I even do not know how to call those medals „after-produced", or …?)

cimbineus

(P.S.: Look at the ribbon on the first Hero Star, please. The Hungarian tricolour is red-white-green and not vice versa. I am sure that this piece simply could not be in a demonstration box at that time with such a mistake.)

Gents,

Let me add my voice to this discussion, please.

I think, that the first Hero of the HPR star can be called „prototype" with certain reservations only. In fact, that award belonged to the so called "WWIII" series. Just a few high ranking people knew about the existence of those kinds of awards until a scandalous event in the early '70s, when some pieces somehow appeared in one European country. The government of that country sent a Diplomatic Note to the Hungarian government with a simple but difficult to answer question, with something like this: "How is it possible that a country advocating for peace has an award set to be officially founded in the moment of out breaking of a hypothetical WWIII? Explain to us, please!" Of course, it was impossible to give a rational answer or explain anything. As a result, the given appendix to the most secret operational documents disappeared in the late '70s. The demonstration sets (I put the number around 20 sets/boxes) were stored in the Ministry of Defence, but at the end of the '80s all fade away. This Hero of the HPR belonged to that set, I think. Please, see the attached picture.

In the early '90s separate pieces (like this Hero Star) of that set appeared on the market. Later, when the existence of such awards became public, and certain people realised the rarity of such medals, the fake medals turned up, and time to time one can see some of them in the offers nowadays too, always accompanied by colourful stories.

As far as the material is concerned, those are just gold plated.

Regards,

cimbineus