Stijn David

Hello,

Here is a gift from a veteran that i met during my last visit from the past week. It is a shoulderboard from his Tropical uniform - Yellow / flying troops.

This soldier (Gefr.T.) was actually a trained glider pilot and at the Erg.Gr.(S) 2 based at posen when that unit was completely sent towards Tunesia to fight against the allies.

The unit these guys where sent towards is better known as the Lw. feldregiment "Barenthin".

Once in Tunesia he was wounded rather fast in a Jabo attack (Englisch Spitfire) and this before he was actually in action. He stayed however in Tunesia and was to see action near Sidi N'Sir (Mateur area) etc ... untill he was sent back towards Germany with a illness.

This ilness did cause him to spent 3 months in a hospital during early 1943. He never did see Africa again (the Germans did surrender in may 1943) and was later trained to become a FJ and was sent towards the Normandy Front.

He survived the whole war and this was one of the few remambrance pieces he still had untill this very day.

Cordial greetings,

Hello,

And meet the soldier in question - a picture from him shortly after the Cholmbattle - mid May in Pleskau .

Cordial greetings,

Hello dear forumfriends,

I am proud to present 2 pieces that where obtained by me directly from the veteran who earned these awards in the battle of Cholm.

I had the honour to visit 9 veterans in the past 3 days and here is a piece from a small grouping that i could obtain. These pieces did belong towards a glider pilot who landed in Cholm. He landed in March 1942 and was then involved in some very heavy fighting inside Cholm.

He wad for example involved in some close combat days, he did do a voluntary mission to blow up a very a anoying Russian bunker, he survived a russian breakthrough when in his bunker and the German lines where pierced, etc ...

This Glider pilot was wounded twice inside Cholm, but was never more then a few hours in the hospital. The last time a shrapnel did go through his uniofm and did continue its way ove rhis whole back. He was hurt and did feel a very warm thing passing by but the schrapnel did not hit any vital things, spine or something else.

Therefor ehe was awarded the here shown black wound badge.

He survived the Cholmbattle and did some otehr crazy things to end up at the end of the war with heavely brun wounds (a part of his fingers where burnt off !!!) and he lost his eyesight when his fw. 190 was shot down.

He is still in good health (92 years old) and was happy to talk about his experience. Here are the pieces he still got:

* Cholmshield (Zink type - 4 prongs)

* Wound badge - black

Amongst the other things i did receive where:

* Lw. dagger - 2 nd. model

* His officers belt with a HSC Mauser holster still attached.

Enjoy + thanks for looking,

Hi RIck,

Interesting, please advise how the L?beck roll could be off some help. I could do a search on our listed things iff you have some more clue's => i guess you would start with a query on lets say all persons with the rank of? :

* Major

* Oberstleutant

Cordial greetings

Hello,

Ah yes, towards the 4 place medalbar with the IX A.K. medal => a German friend did tell me these should have been awarded arround 1920-1921. No clue however on whatthese dates are based? I am even wondering iff my medal is then on the correct ribbon (guess so) as you did mention earlier that most are found on a cornblue ribbon.

The emdal itself is a real qualitypiece what concerns production, very pure => i like it for certain.

Cordial greetings,

Hi RIcky,

Thank you for showing these wonderfull ribbon bars

Any supsects by name on your ribbon bar nr. 1?, iff so i can browse through my files on the L?h to see if any of them ar enoted, etc .... ?

So what do we have on that magnificent bar?

* EK 2

* Red Eagle (?)

* Crown order

* Centenary medal

* Z?hringer L?we - Ritter 1 e class with X

* ?

* Hamburg Hanseatic ?

* L?h

* Austrian milit?r Verdienstkreuz

Should be identifyable iff some names are found - or am i totally mistaking? He was certainly a older Officer during WWI as he did get the Centenial medal. According to his Z?hringer Lion he might have held the minimumrank during WWI of a Hauptmann and mayby a Major? And then i do notice you referr towards this person as a Oberstleutnant

My guess is a staffofficer of some kind who sis rose towards the rank of Major during WWI. As there is no Hindenburg cross on that one he might have passed away by 1934?

Cordial greetings + thanks for showing

Hello,

And the reverse of the large medal bar => i think it was made by the exact same persons who did produce the bars from richard.

Cordial greetings,

Hello,

The unkown medal does show "Germania" - here figure is surrounded by the words : Wir Deutsche furchten Gott - Aber sonst nichts in der Welt"

The reverse does have a laurelleave with inside this the following dates: "IX - 1866 1918"

Anyone a clue what this medal is?, who did award it?, criteria, etc....

And also here is a close up from that lovely mini (the EK and the L?H are enameled). ther eis no make rmark of any kind.

Cordial greetings + thanks for looking,

Hello,

Thank you RIcky for that confirmation , so we also do know now that both military (largest part) and a few civilians did receive the L?H cross

And .......... here is my newest addition. A 4 place medal bar, containing:

* EK 2

* L?H

* Hindenburg cross

* unknown medal (some kind of veteran piece or unofficial award?)

The reverse backing is red + the sewing of the ribbons and threads used to fix the crosses tightly are very similar towards the pieces from Richard

And as a nice bonus a miniature was also amongst this nice piece, containing:

* EK 2

* L?H

* Hindenburg cross

* Black wound badge

So this soldier also was wounded during his time - who is behind it? no clue however ;-)

Cordial greetings,

Hello,

Interesting question => civilians. What are civilians in a wartime period.

Are one of the following seen as civilians?

* Regierungs Bau-inspektor

* Bausekret?r

* Kreisschulinspektor

* Pfleger (with the Freiwillige krankenpflege L?beck)

Cordial greetings,

Hello RIchard,

I am also expecting a L?H bar in the next week. I will post it as soon as i have it + i do think that in regard of sewing, etc ... we will see a very near match. Same type of colour of thread used to hold the Hindeburgcross in its place, etc..., same way of folding of the ribbons, tec....

Does anyone have actually one of the following pieces in regards of the L?H cross:

* Case of Issue / (or) paper Packet (iff these do exist? )

* Miniatures

Cordial greetings,

Hello dear forumites,

As you know are David M and i constantly working on the lovely L?H roll.

Here are the results as of this today:

Totally listed at this point: 5.315 names

Year / Number / Procentual

1915 / 547 / 10,29

1916 / 1.744 / 32,81

1917 / 1.622 / 30,52

1918 / 1.201 / 22,60

1919 / 79 / 1,49

1920 / 42 / 0,79

1921 / 6 / 0,00

subtotal 5.241 98,49

unkown (year of award) 74 1,39

In this number 5.315 we do find the following speical branches

Flieger 36

Marineflieger 14

Marine 337

Luftschiffer 14

Marineluftschiffer 3

Schutztruppe 16

Cordial greetings + lets work on

Hello,

Thank you Richard for the reverse of the 2 medal bars => could these 2 bars have been made by the same person? The folding of the ribbons look very alike, the sewing, etc ... also and the catch, etc ... looks also exactly the same. The same juweler perhaps?

I do ask because a L?H bar is also comming my way +will post it once it has arrived. And yes it does look exact the same on terms of sewing, etc....

Any opinions?

Cordial greetings,

Hello RIchard,

Would it be possible to show the revers eof those medal bars also?

Cordial greetings + thanks in advance

Hello dear Forumites,

I think we have the person already by the additional information, let me explain.

We have the following detirmining information;

Rank: Ersatzreservist

Unit: Wachkompanie 162 ( a part of the I.R. 162

Name: W.....

I did a search with these and did find 21 soldiers with the matching rank of 'Ersatzreservist' and the starting letter: W.

Iff i then do a finetuning on the letter W => i have 3 remaining suspects:

* Welle, franz, I.R. 162 - date: 25/11/1916

* Wohlers, Friedrich, I.R. 162 - date: 15/09/1917

* W?rdehoff, Erwin, I.R. 162 - date: 15/09/1917

Iff we then take the date on the postcard also into account, we have: 05.09.1917 and i do believe that i can recognize the letetr "o" behind the W.

So the soldier named "Wohlers" is a very big possibility, howeve rthen we are still strugling with dates => the card is dated: 07/09/1917 and the award entry in L?H roll is from 15/09/1917. Or the cross was awarded and later on the award entry was regularized and entered later?

The 100 % confirmation will be possible iff you can also find this name (Wohlers) on the Mecklenburg FF cross roll.

Cordial greetings,

Hello Richard,

Thank ou for showing these 2 medal bars, very fine pieces. Is there someone of the readers who wants to transliterate the text on the postcard? mayby that can point towards the direction of the former wearer of that medal bar.

Anyway also very nice postcard, just love it

Cordial greetings,

Hello,

Thank you guys, so lets just hope that our friend was one of the last 4 names:

* Crienitz

* Engel

* Ihn

* Neumann

Iff the Mecklenburg and Hamburg rolls where available we could already know it => but lets just hope that one day we will know and if a positive ID is possible it will be a

Cordial greetings,

Hello,

I wish to bring this one back under the attention => anyone from the more educated guys who can rule out the remaining officers?

Cordial greetings and thanks in advance,

Hallo Friedrich,

Welcome towards the club

Cordial greetings,

Hi Gordon,

Thank you => much appreciated

Cordial greetings,

ps: received the pictrue in very good order

Hello Gordon,

My pleasure => it is a very very interesting grouping and i just love that picture of this man. Is the picture yours or ?

Why do i ask? I am currently working with a friend on a article (to be published in the BDOS) about the large NSFK glider pilots badge. We also do present in the article pictures of that badge in wear and this picture is just superb to say at least !!!

Cordial greetings,

Hello,

Yes the Large NSFK glider pilots abdge as shown in the display is a fake.

The Bachstelze is something special offcoarse but that does not mean he was a luftwaffe glider pilot, other pilots could offcoarse also fly such vehicles (and at this point it is not known wich certificates this soldier did got, i do mean: Civil Glider certificate, military glider certificate, civil motorized pilot certificate, etc ....) => therefore i do say not a military glider pilot untill the other way is prooven 100 %

Cordial greetings,

Hello,

Super legacy for certain => thanks for sharing that one

But, yes, yes there is a but on this.

He was a glider pilot before his transfer towards the Marine and that is unusual but not unique (for example our friend Chris Boonzaier has such a legacy in his family).

This person was a civil glider pilot => and not a military glider pilot.

The most normal way he probably went was:

He started gliding early 1930's and was obviously a good glider pilot as he did win the silver C profiency badge.

And yes, i have him listed :

Silver C nr. 382 - Schaefer , Jobst - Kiel

Awarded on: 25.06.1937

Then he went into Marineservice (but as we know such profiency badges could be worn on the uniform - the same iff you where later with the Heer, Luftwaffe or Marine). Offcoarse most of the persons who where civil gldie rpilots or had a interest in flying went towards the Luftwaffe. But not always offcoasre (as we can see prime examples in this thread !!!!).

Persons could offcoarse be already in a branch such as a the Marine or the Heer and win the civil glider certificates. As said, teh A, B, C and Silver C profiency badges are civil awards. Any person (both male and female) could win it if they qualifyed for it in the gliding sport.

During 1942 the Large NSFK glide rpilots badge was established and according towards the rules former holders of the Silver C profiency badge could get this one (see it as a trade). That is probably what happened.

Therefore Gordon => remove that Luftwaffe Glider pilots badge from your display and it does fit (however => im not so certain that the Large NSFK as shown is a original).

Cordial greetings

Hello,

Hallo David,

have you the names of those people? Can you post it?

Thank

Hi Jaba

These names are offcoarse known towards us (the 3 persons working ont the transcription of the roll) at this moment. The info you ask is a bit to much at this point of time. Once the roll is published by us then you will have offcoarse the opportunity to get these names in the book. ;-)

Cordial greetings,

Hello,

As David did say, the roll is already writte in a book + listed alphabeticly => A, B, C, ..... towards the Z. We are working us through these letters. Then you become a total and only from this total we can then start to make statisctics (for example by yearn etc...)

Please allow me to guestimate also howmuch L?H are awarded during its awarding period. Here are the facts on wich my estimation are based:

* The roll does contain 432 pages

* Each page does contain 32 names

And now my guess => 432 X 32 = 13.824

According to me there where arround 13.824 L?H awarded, there can be a few more or a few less , this will become clear within a few months as the roll has been finished.

Cordial greetings,