Stijn David

Hello,

And the maker marks => note anything special on that ?

Cordial greetings,

anotehr vieuw - look at that lovely patina

Hello,

And the goblet => pictures copyright by our friend Jan Van de Vel

Cordial greetings,

Hello,

As said before => terrible fake from a previous generation.

Here is what the real deal looks like. This example was awarded towards a glider pilot.

Cordial greetings,

Hello,

The focus does change a bit but a few friends have helped in researching an the former winner from the goblet was MIA shortly afterwards.

He was a member of the 5./ KG 2.

The crew did fly a mission on the date of 21.06.1942 with their Do 217 E-4 (markings: U5 + NN) anf ailed to return.

Since that day the complete crew is reported missing in action.

The crew consisted out of:

- Ofw Johann Rulfs (pilot)

- Ofw Willi Seelow (observer)

- Fw Theodor Schulz (Radio transmitter)

- Fw Walter Richter (bordmechanic)

The crew must have been quite succesfull as both Rulfs & Schulz did win the German Cross in Gold, Richter from his side did win the Honour Goblet as his highest award.

Is there anyone who can point me the actions out in wich teh II./KG 2 was involved during the period of time in wich they where reported MIA ?

Cordial greetings,

All toughts and opinions are offcoarse welcome to research this needle in the haystack

Hi RIchard,

Thank you, yes i know my questions are not always clear (that is also due to the fact that English is not my native language )

Yes i have the goblet and i am convinced that it is the goblet as can be found in the literature

A) Ehrenpokal date 20.04.1942 / Feldwebel - Bordmechanic

That is my certanity, all the rest is something can't confirm at this point and i would like to find out the fate of my former goblet holder offcoarse (as the lw. flying units), also was he the DKiG winner from the KG 1 or not? those are facts that are uncertain at this point.

It is quite well possible that the honour goblet was his highest award and that he was KIA during the following period, the sad faith of quite a few Lw. crews. Therefore all help in researching it is welcome

Pictures will follow a bit later

Cordial greetings,

Hello,

Please allow me to not agree with the following written '

So no order of the african star is noted, but indeed the african service star'

The name as symbolized is indeed rather confusing, as for the congo colony several orders, medals and a service star where created.

The confusion is about:

* Order of the African Star

* Service star

When we would transliterate the German word 'Afrikanischer Dienststern' then we have indeed: African Service star. Therefore the confusion.

The award as rendered towards von Eulenburg is the Order of the African star, and not the service star.

Why? there is actual no discussion at all because the service star as Jacky denotes was only awarded towards persons who actually did service (a 3 year periode minimum) in the Congo colony in the service of the Etat ind?pendant du Congo, ( E.I.C).

Graf von Eulenburg was never in service in E.I.C. in the Congo itself. Therefore he could not ever have received the Service star. (several original time period archive pieces do proove this)

I am working on a article (in cooperation with Dr. P.Sauerwald) about this order during the E.I.C period (1885 towards 1908) and its awarding towards German subjects. It is very clear that the Order of the African star was a rare award and was rather a personal gift from Leopold II towards certain persons who where of some use in helping him to establish his colonial dream.

In the case of von Eulenburg we have to search into the relation between the Belgian King leopold II and the role that Germany played (See also the Congres of Berlin 1884-1885 / the role Bismarck played, etc ... etc .... ) in helping to recognize the E.I.C. as a free state under the reign of the Belgian king.

Cordial greetings,

Hi mike,

Thank you very much for this confirmation, the wealth of these imerpial abbrevations is learning for me

WHile i am at the subject, can you guys als check the following name for me?

Dr. Volz B.

He was the director of the Viktoria Gymnasium - Potsdam and should als have received a grade of the Order of the Africa Star. What is the exact name as given by teh Germans towards this award?

Cordia greetings + thank you very much

Hello,

Thank you Dani?l, could any of you guys tell me iff of of the ordersymbols also does stand for the folloiwng award:

* grand cross - Order of teh Afrikan star / Belgium?

Thank you

Hi Richard,

Thank you for the hints, i have however encountered another possibility to make it even more complex

So i have found:

* Richter Walter => honour goblet

A) Ehrenpokal date 20.04.1942 / Feldwebel - Bordmechanic

B) Ehrenpokal date 08.05.1943 / Oberfeldwebel - Pilot

Sofar we have 2 possibility's => my goblet should be from A, the date onf the goblet is however 16.04.1942 and the rank engraved is: Overfeldwebel - the name is a exact macth.

Then we also know that a German cross in Gold was awarded towards a Oberfeldwebel Walter Richter on the date of 17/10/1943. This person (one of the above 2 possibility's A or B) was acting with the KG 1 'Hindenburg'.

So 50 % chance it is either A or B? , any clues on how to find out wich one of the 2 it was?

Iff the DKiG winner was A, then we do know the unit towards wich my research object did belong ( Kampfgeschwader 1 'Hindenburg'), iff the DKiG winner is however B then we do not know much besides the fact that he did win a honour goblet, not even the unit etc .. (could be many things)

So the research does continue

Then we also have the fact that a Walther Richter (note the spelling => Walther is written with a H) was awarded the following awards:

* Ehrenpokal - date : 16.02.1942 / Uffz. - Bordmechanic

* German Cross in Gold : 27.10.1942 / Uffz

* Knights cross : 28.02.1945 / Ofw. - Bordmechanic

This Walther Richter was active with the KG 53.

The fact that in this case neither the name (there could be spelling mistake), rank and award date are corresponding does point out that we can forget about this one. So we still have 2 possibility's left IMHO.

All hints are offcoarse welcome to help solve this riddle and find out who this person was and what was his fate?

ps: anyone a idea in wich type of planes a Bordmechanic was needed for example?

Hello,

There is another possibility, there was another Walther Richter (also a German cross in Gold winner) but he was with the KG 53. The KG 53 W.Richter was a Bordmechanic, someone confirmed me that the KG 1 W. Richter was a pilot. So he could not have been the one.

Therefore, lets focus on the KG 53 one

Hello,

Is there anyone who can give me more information on the Kampfgeschader 53 'legion Condor' ?

I am looking in particular after the faith and information on :

Uffz. Walther Richter

He was awarded the DKiG on the date of 27.10.1942 while acting as a 'Bordmechanic' with teh 3./KG 53.

Thank you in advance,

Hi Francois,

Thank you for showing some of you wonderfull pieces => please keep me in mind for that particular unit pin

Cordial greetings,

Hello RIck & Glenn,

Thank you very much => could any off you inform me iff amongst the maney abbrevations there is a Belgian award ;-) ?

Cordial greetings,

Hello,

Who can list me all awards bestowed upon this gentlemen?

S.E. Exzellenz August Graf zu Eulenburg.

Thank you in advance,

Hello,

Anyone knows where to find some additional info on this person? Mayby a 'Geschwader' chronik or other sources?

Cordial greetings,

Hello,

Thank you for the usefull hint. You guys are doing a fantastic job and i can only say thank you for this project.

In Belgium we still have a lot of undiscovered things that can be researched, therefore once congratulations and keep up the good work

Cordial greetings,

Hi Frank,

Thank you very much for these pictures and information. I can only wish you the very best in Singapore and mayby after that we can work something out togheter about subjects in belgian service (not necesairely Belgians an sich) in Congo who has been awarded a award from M-S.

Cordial greetings,

Hello Frank,

Thank you very much, all these awards are in direct relation with the expedition of the Grand -Duke and for me offcoarse of large interest becaus eof the international awarding (in these cases => between the Grandduchie of Mecklemburg-Schwerin and the Congo Freestate and vice versa.)

Do you have any idea on total numbers of awards of the listed awards for Mecklemburg Schwerin ? It would be nice to see howmuch of the total went towards persons in Belgian service (or more exact in the service of the Congo freestate)

Does anyone have images of for example the following awards?

* Ritterkreuz mit Krone - Greifenorden

* Ehrenkreuz des Greifenorden

* silberne (gro?e) Verdienstmedaille

* silberne (kleine) Verdienstmedaille FF III

Did Bernd also forward you the latest newsletter from SKF?

Thank you in advance

Cordial greetings,

Hi Seeheld,

Many thanks !!! => it is much appreciated. Here are some otehr names that are also in relation towards that very voyage. Could you also confirm these?

* Baudelet O.A. - Knigth with crown

* Dercke E.J.V. - Knight with crown

* Benaerts H.A. - Knigth with crown

* Fuchs - ?

* Engh - Knigth with crown

* Boyton - Knight

* Thielemans - Silver medal

* Bernstein Alexis - Silver medal

* Bouchaut - ?

* L?tken Otto Wilhelm - Silver medal

* Ogg - Knight

* Boisacq A.E. - Knight

* Grasset F.A. - Knight

* Veriter - Knight

Looking at the names i do think that also some foreigners in Congo service could be amongst them. The date of award is probably arround 28/08/1911.

* I can add for you that the city behind Collyns should be Bruxelles

Cordial greetings and thank you already

Hello,

Thank you Ricky => yes our evil ancestors did apprently not find out what the real name was ;-)

I would be very pleased to see the Belgians confirmed that i have, so please Seeheld read this and lets start

I will drop in a few names already to get it started when possible ;-)

* Collyns

* Van der Cruyssen

* Antoinet

* Treutels (this one is mispelled it seems and could also be Suntels)

Im curious iff thes eone can be confirmed from the listst ? The dates of award should be arround 1912.

Cordial greetings,

Hello,

1) order of the Griffon

In my search in a Belgian archive i have stumbled upon several awardings of the order of the Griffon (Mecklemburg - Schwerin) towards Belgian subjects.

Is there any way to verify these awardings? All awards are to see in direct relation towards the yourney of the Grand-Duke of Mecklemburg-Schwerin through central-Africa during 1908/1909

The awards however are first rendered during 1912.

2) Another award in this case is a award of the so called "la croix de service en argent de la couronne des Wendes", what was this for a award?

All help is much appreciated to point me into the correct direction.

Cordial greetings + thanks in advance,

Hi guys,

Indeed, he did fly a ressuply mission towards CHolm on the date of 07.03.1942 and started in the late afternoon from the airbase Pleskau towards Cholm.

They where able to land safe (crew existed out of glider pilots Eck / D?hne ) at approx. 19.00 Hours. Their load was a PAK and ammunition.

The load could been recovered in good order and the crew was from that point on part of the encercled troops. They survived the encerlement and could leave the Cholm encerclement on the date of 09.05.1942 (the encerclement was broken on the date of 05.05.1942).

For their efforts in this battle he recieved :

* Iron Cross 2 nd. class - 15.03.1942

* Eastern front medal - 05.10.1942

* CHolhield - 31.10.1942 (note that this is the standard date as found on the award documents of the Cholmshield, in the case of the glider pilots it is prooven that they only received the shield, etc ... arround january 1943)

So after the Cholmbattle the glider crews where first put into a quarantaine. The reason therefore was that there was inside Cholm a disease called 'Flecktyphus'. After this quarantaine they where allowed to go onto a holliday.

After the holliday the normal duty began again and he was first transferred towards the Erg. gr. (S) 1 based at langendiebach where he became a trainer for the new Glider recruts. After this he was send towards the Luftlandegeschwader 2 (L.L.G. 2) based in france during 1943.

There his wartime efforts where not over yet as a glider. As a Feldwebel he also participated into the glider missions towards Sicily. He and his crew did a ressuply landing on Sicily (Airfield Catania) on the date of 13.07.1943.

Remark : Only 16 Go 242's gliders did land on Sicily for ressuply - their load where Paratroopers.

They had it quite hard on Sicily as they where shelled, etc .. even during the landing and as so called special personal (this means - highly qualifyed and RE-usable for other glider missions) they where allowed to leave Sicily. After 6 days of traveling they made it back towards their homebase in france (Istres).

For this action he did not receive any awards etc ... but was promoted up towards his final rank: Leutnant.

The training went on, untill he was voluntarely transferred towards the KG 200 => and that story is described already

So, please meet our man

Hi SNoopy,

Hehehe, he was never with the KG 2 as you will see.

Read the entry carefull : I Kampfgeschwader. 2 e Staffel

That does mean, 2 e Staffel - Kampfgeschwader I, fully transliterated it does mean : Kampfgeschwader z.b.V. I wich was the mother unit from the Glider pilots as they where trained on the Go 242 glider plane

So there does ly the answer also, he was trained on the Go 242 with the KGzbV I and did fly a ressuply mission towards ....

Cordial greetings,

Hi Snoopy,

Thank you for taking up the gauntlet on this one, you are once again parially correct. However you need to start with the first entered unit:

Namely the Segelfliegerschule der LW ( Neuhausen)

That unit was the first unit that did train military glider pilots, it was later renamed Erg. Gr. (S) 1 wich does stand for :

Erg?nzungs Gruppe (Segelflug) 1

So the (S) does stand for Segelflug (glider) and not See .

But you are quite good on the way. Therefore i can give you the following part of the riddle : he started his career as a military glider pilot (glider pilots badge awarded 1941) and was trained to fly both the DFS230 and Go 242 glider planes.

As a extra i will give you guys the award page => so now the theather of war will become clear also

So feel free to add the next part of the riddle.