Stijn David

Hello,

Oh well => correct as far as the Glider pilots badge is concerned, this is indeed a Large eagle one in wear.

There is more and it is indeed a Cholmschield on its arm, but waht more can be said about that one

Cordial greetings,

ps: here is a larger scan from the Glider badge, etc ... (not the sharpest but it serves its purpose )

Hello,

Here is a pictrue from the personal archive, as Francois is posting some real nice things i thought it is my turn again.

Pictured are 2 brotehrs, the real fun thing in this picture is that 2 oddity's can be vieuwed who are not the norm, name them and lets learn and share knowledge.

Cordial greetings,

Hi Francois,

Is there something you don't have ,

I like that picture very much because of the fact that it looks like that the otehr officer is really interested in that particular award (Anti-Partisans badge) , he is even touching it as it seems !!

Once a older German collector did tell me, never say never => this is once again such a strange combination that it is real fun and im sure iff the documents of this officer would appear quite a few would all to easely say = Fake !!!

Cordial greetings,

Hello,

Interesting picture Francois, thank you for showing that one.

As you might know Luftwaffe units where during 1944 (for example: Luftlande related) quite often used in fighting what where called Partisans, for example in Serbia personel of Luftlande units where involved in bombing missions, etc ..... => a kind of fire police at the spot.

However in this case we will probably never know how he did qualify

Cordial greetings,

Hello,

Here is a better scan from the "Bandspange" => feel free to add more

Cordial greetings,

Hello,

A good question where multiple answers could be given, no all mighty answer for sure but as the Prussians did have the motto "Suum Cuique" !!

Well for me a good consideration is that it is still possible (altough it is ending fast) to speak with the soldiers who where in that very war. As a example i do give with pleasure the following picture.

The picture was a very first time published in my recent booklet "Verleihungsurkunden .... Cholsmchild", it is written in german as in order to give the veterans that did co-operate a understandable piece of what we can rediscover. The picture does show a bunch of "Luftlande" soldiers and before publication only 1 soldier was known towards me, namely the middle one as he did had this one in his Photoalbum.

The publication was launched and within 1 month i did receive the names from both the left and the right soldier. In otehr words, they are now identifyed with name and also what happened with them is known now;

left soldier : Uffz. Ottmar Fischer (he was KIA in a flying accident at Riga - 1943)

right soldier : Uffz. Helmuth D?hne (he was KIA while acting in a Jagdgeschader in 1945)

Without the publishing of this picture these would have been annonymous German luftwaffe soldiers, now these soldiers have their name back and their face is known towards me and you.

Thats what is fascinating me so much, we can still find persons who did particpate and tell about it, so it has a historical value for me.

Cordial greetings,

Hello,

Thank you for comments and nice pictures of originals.

Keep the following type identification about glider badges in mind, in a certain future the system will become more and more known

Type I : C.E.Juncker

Type II : Br?der Schneider/Wien

etc ....

Within this system there are subdivisions, etc ... but that will be clear after the launch of the bookproject on these.

The fun thing is that for example within the BSW glider badges a wider range of metal types can be encountered ( for example, quite often persons do talk about Buntmetal, etc .. . but i can assure you that when analysed with SEM etc .. rather different compositions do come towards the daylight => in that way that the inner composition from copper, Aloy, etc ... can differ, resulting in a different metal look )

Anyway, glider badges are a fun thing to collect, however always keep in mind that it is a small minefield on its own but i am always illing to help the members of this forum to give info, hints, advise, etc ...

Cordial greetings,

Hello,

Thank you for he comments

@ Stogie: It is Br?der Schneider / Wien instead of Bruno Schneider

The very fun thing is that a German collector already had this one in his collection but was told by a few dealers etc ... that it was a fake => he returned it etc ... and the original owner did send it towards me for inspection. Needles to say i was very suprised to see a original pop up

So you see, know your subject and you will find very nice original objects

Cordial greetings,

Hello,

Here is the reverse of this badge, it does show signs of repair => the catch has been repaired (as was broken of), one of the rivets (left one seems to have been flattened or repaired) and there are scratches on the reverse.

Otherwise this badge is very nice, as i have never seen one in this condition i makes me wonder iff this could be reworked (= new finisch applyed) ? Any idea's + feel free to comment.

Cordial greetings

Hello,

Here is a unmarked BSW glider badge that i have the honour to look at, this badge is in a condition (certainly the front) that i have never seen before with these BSW badges. Absolutely stunning as far as i am concerned

Cordial greetings,

Hello,

This is absolutely terrible news, i wil make anouncement of this in the upcomming SKF newsletter + will post a link on our website towards this thread on our homepage.

Hopefully the thieves can be caught and the medal bars recovered

Cordial greetings,

Hello Humberto,

Seems that this thread did not get the attention it does deserve, the so caleld "Hausorde .... HG" is a strange beast indeed.

I have no acces towards my literature but iff not mistaking i think that there was a article on these in the Patzwall magazine. That can be found for sure on the website of Patzwall.

As far as i do know it was a non official recognition from HG, he was after all very crazy about juwelery + keep in mind that such a thing was in earlyer times something that was rather for royal houses. In that way he was rather equal towards Napoleon. They both adopted certain symbols to create a myth arround them .

For example:

* Napoleon = adopted many symbols from Roman Times etc ...

* Herm G?ring = he adopted also many symbols and in that it fitted to make a so called 'House Order", in that way he could use the system of awarding orders to get a certain shine and create a sort of medieval brotehrship.

Very interesting when you think on this.

Cordial greetings,

Hello,

Thank you for sharing these more detailed pictures. very nice piece and we can only say towards the newer and olde rcollector => look at this one untill you go , this is the thing to look and learn from.

This is the real thing and it is scarce for sure !!!, just imagine one had to survive more or less 50 close combat days, that was something for sure

Is the former recipient known from this one?

Cordial greetings

Hello,

OOOHH indeed, i might be mistaking on this one => could you post a close up of the ribbon bar? That would make it clear iff it was either the ribbon for the "Galipolli Star" or for the Imtiaz medal etc ... (or even another exotic thingy ? )

Cordial greetings,

Hello,

Karl gratz was awarded the following as far as i could find them:

* Honour Goblet - as a Uffz. - date : 08.06.1942

* Knights Cross - as a Uffz. - date : 01.07.1942 - Unit: 8./J.G. 52

* German cross in Gold - as a Fw. - date : 08.06.1943 - Unit: 8./J.G. 52

De not be surpised that a KC was awarded before a German cross, these things did happen and is often seen with Luftwaffe personel.

Hope this does help.

Cordial greetings,

ps: did just see that Doc already posted the info

Hi Robert,

very nice picture for sure, the device as found on the ribbon denotes a battle (altough unofficial as far as i do know) and it depicts the ribbon for the Turkisch star as the soldiers where allowed to wear the ribbon on a ribbon bar and the star seperatly.

Sometimes you do see a mounted star on a medal bar but that was a private arranged method of wearing.

There was a nice article recently printed by the following community: http://www.ordenskunde.at

Cordial greetings,

Hi Kevin,

Thank you for the transliteration

Cordial greetings,

ps: do not feel shy to add anything towards this thread, it is a fun subject (at least IMHO )

Hello,

Will try to add a bit towards our masters reading:

- Evreux ; 28.03.1941

Cordial greetings,

Hello,

ANd here is a closing written down diary report from such a Silver C holder.

He was active in Afrika (Tunesia) and was lucky enough to survive and been drafter back towards Germany to start the officers course.

He and some comrades where flewn back from Tunesia towards Italy in Ju 52 transport planes. During the flight over the Sea 2 of the Ju 52 began to play and did fly as close as they could + hit each other wings etc ...

The flight guest did become nervous from this dangerous play and he did point out his Silver C as in order to get something to say against the pilot of the plane he was in. Effect was apparently that the dangerous game was stopped.

" Ich konnte schon eine kleine Lippe riskieren, denn auf meiner sch?bigen Afrikajacke klebte das stofferne Abbild des "Silbernen Leistungsabzeichen f?r den motorlosen Flug" damals noch recht selten und begehrt "

Mayby some native German can translate this in perfect Englisch?

It does show that amongst pilots etc ... this particular badge was held in high regard !!

Cordial greetings

Hello,

The thing that Chris does say as told by his gandfather is 100 % accurate, the Silver C was a very high distinction at that very time.

I can find and post other such evidence as written down by silver C holders.

To make it more clear how difficult this one was to get at that time,

* The shown second pattern document by me did belong towards a world record holder during 1938 in gliding.

* Almost 90 % of the glider pilots involved in the Eben Emael mission where holders of the Silver C.

* The glider pilots in the Crete assault where of the very same caliber, etc ... .

* etc ...

So iff you guys encounter such a thing, do look at it with respect

Cordial greetings,

Hello,

And as the goal is a informative thread offcoarse => here is the second pattern of the Silver C certificate.

The personal details are hidden for the moment as upon recipients request

Cordial greetings,

Hello,

Thank you for the reaction Gary, indeed Detlev does state that there does exist a version with diamonds. He is correct in that but is mistaking into the time when these where awarded.

The only official and awarded versions from 1932 towards 1943 are:

A Profiency

B Profiency

C Profiency

Silver C badge

Gold C badge

The Gold versions with diamonds are from after WWII, the reason is rather simple. After WWII the construction and materials of the glider planes did change so it did become needed to make a higher grade of profiency badge.

So please Detlev if you do read this, take note of this and correct it in the book.

All above named grades are indeed still awarded nowadays, you can distinguish the recent made pieces simply by the construction etc ... Also be aware that the pieces from during 1950's etc ... are exactly the same as their 30's and 40's counterparts when speaking of the A, B & C grade. The silver C has differences already.

Here is a picture of a cloth version of the silver C in wear

Cordial greetings,

Hello,

Here are the conditions that one had to fullfill to earn that silver C,

* 1x 5hrs flight

* 1x cross-country flight covering 50KM of distance

* 1x flight with the starting height risen of 1000m

Cordial greetings,

Hello,

In this thread there was also info on this subject, altough abit more hidden;

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=4883&hl=

Attached is a original sample board from the company of S & L, we can see a comercial produced Silver C in the second row from the S & L production.

Cordila greetings,

Hello,

And here is a cloth version of the silver C from the collection.

Cordial greetings,