IrishGunner

A very nice start... :cheers:

Yea, we are sailing past each other here. I'm agreeing with you... But also reading between the lines.

No worries... :whistle:

As deaths were involved they are War Graves in my opinion.

Kev, yes deaths involved, but does that mean there are still bodies aboard? The information posted here is not clear on that fact. Are bodies still aboard? If there are bodies aboard, there should be no question they are War Graves and the British have an exceptional system for dealing with such cases. They should decide disposition and not the Estonians.

However, I was merely suggesting that the wording in your OP that the Estonians have said the ships are "legally" British implies that the Estonians are laying no claim - and therefore no financial responsibility.

I certainly meant no disrespect to any perished souls.

Estonian officials did not elaborate on the condition of the wrecks but said they legally belonged to Britain.

Sounds like maybe there are some financial issues (read expenses) with recovery / environmental damage... :whistle:

Very nice - lots of hidden stories there I bet.

Well, that's one vote AGAINST and one vote FOR.

The last two rows - last eight ribbons just don't make sense to me - even though I'm clueless about Soviet ribbon bars. Different sizes, backwards ribbons, odd order. Just seems as is = made up.

I really like the first two rows - first eight ribbons though. :whistle:

Good initiative - poor judgment. Ancient traditions don't play well in the information age.

Now here's where my hope comes into play and a question:

Is it possible that the first 8 ribbons - OGPW 1. Cl, ORS, Bravery, MMM, Lenin 100th, Caucasus, Victory/Germany, 20th Jub of GPW - is it possible that this is a real bar that was attached to the other Frankenstein parts?

I know felt is a warning sign for fakes - but aren't there real bars with felt? Or is this just wishful thinking?

Now the back side; as we can see there is a cloth patch connecting three separate felt pieces.

Felt #1 has the first 8 awards - OPGW to 20th Jubilee (all the combat and campaign medals are in this group also).

Felt #2 has six ribbons - the 2nd VoG, 60th Jub AF, 40th Jub GPW, 50th Jub AF, Vet of the AF, and Valiant Labor (a quite odd grouping and seemingly out of order).

Felt #3 has two ribbons - Vet of Labor and 70th Jub AF (these are on top of each other to fill in the corner when the 8x and 6x pieces were attached).

So, with this construction, it is almost certain a Frankenstein.

A couple things I've noted right off:

1) The second VoG, 60th AF Jub, and 40th Jub GPW are smaller than all the others.

2) 40th Jub GPW and Vet of the AF are backwards.

3) The order of everything after the second VoG just seems to be out of chronological order.

4) If that really is a Valiant Labor in next to last position; shouldn't this be higher (and why would a Labor award be with the combat awards?)

I am assuming that this is a Frankenstein ribbon bar, but I'm hoping to use it to learn a few things. It only cost $4.00, so not a lot invested. Here's the ribbons as I've identified them:

Order Great Patriotic War 1. Cl

Order of Red Star

Bravery Medal

Combat Service Medal

100^th Anniv. Lenin

Defense of Caucasus

Victory over Germany

20 Years Great Patriotic War

Victory over Germany

60 Years of Armed Forces

40 Years of Great Patriotic War

Veteran of Labor

50 Years Armed Forces

Veteran of Armed Forces

Valiant Labor

70 Years of Armed Forces

Nice - lots of great color in those ribbons. :cheers:

Order "For Merit". Awarded by Russian Union of Afghan War Veterans.

http://www.zasluga.r...3cbf9c8fcc368db

http://www.margelov.com/rewards.htm

I saw one of these at the Yerevan flea market today - thought it was interesting, but something else caught my eye so I never asked about it to the dealer. Any idea on how much one of these might be worth?

Well, the most likely candidate for a case like this would be the Polonia Restituta - a common award and a cross.

Nice citation; busy sailor. Too bad for the chipped enamels.

Hmm. Didn't really help too much. Could be anything.

Can we see the inside?

I wouldn't want to meet that sergeant in the first photo in a trench.

Nice photos.

Thanks for the comments. I definitely need to get a good recommendation on research possibilities.

Spring 45 (and the close number for action at the Reichstag) makes me very curious as to if this is Berlin related. Then I'd be very happy. :jumping:

Beautiful - and with an artillery connection. You are indeed fortunate to have this one. :cheers:

Well, I looked at five Red Stars today; all with the Monetny Dvor mint mark.

Three looked pretty good - all high numbers (1,844,674 - this one is below; 1,9xx,xxx - dealer said this was Moscow minted; 2,1xx,xxx).

One was a 6-digit number, but the front of the star was very, very worn - almost no details to the soldier. I like the number, but the wear was a question for my inexperienced eye. It looks original, but how much does the wear take off the value?

One looked pretty good, except that the engraving of the number was still very shiny in the cuts - suspicious, considering the rest was worn.

So, here is number 1844674 for your consideration. (Only cost about $40)

If you don't accept it - it is likely lost to the family; as you said the French Consulate doesn't seem to care after they send out the medal (action completed in their mind). They won't likely do anything to find the veteran.

What if you accept and find the family - huge success. It's a win and you have the feeling of a good deed done.

What if you accept and don't find the family - just return it back to the Consulate; the result would be the same as if you don't accept at all. No harm, no foul.

If you accept and try - you tried to do the right thing. If you fail, worst case is that you send it back to the French authorities.

Having worked similar cases from the Embassy side, if there were someone like you willing to do the leg work I would jump at that chance. Otherwise, the diplomatic staff just has too much to do - while perhaps the right thing to do - one just has to consider the reality. Like I said, I would welcome your assistance - even if you failed.

I say go for it!

Hehe... Now I see Long Service. Patience isn't my strong trait. :whistle:

Nice award; any idea for what activity she received the Star?

I will be looking Red Stars over tomorrow at the Yerevan flea market. :ninja:

What a great looking example. You should get it researched.

Paul, any advice on how I can get these researched? A service of some sort?