IrishGunner

Since there is a seperate thread away from the UK thread for South Africa Vic's, I thought, I'd re-title this one and we can start a record of Indian Army Vic's. One reason, this might be useful, is to better understand the different ranks/units and abbreviations.

Marine version...

Gangster version...

Going more modern... The Thompson submachine gun... Favored by gangsters and Marines alike...

Good comrades are not forgotten.

Alas, in them days my access to cameras was limited. I have a photo at home which shows a much younger me with a Canadian Field Artillery tunic and SMLE. I will try to get a scan.

Michael

Doesn't have to be you... Just the rifle!

Can you get more iconic than the Short Magazine Lee Enfield No. 1 Mk. III? That blunt forend with the sight ears and bayonet stud are as emblematic of 1914-1918 as an Adrien helmet or pickelhaube.

Michael

Photos?

4 Feb 1913: The German railroad car manufacturer Gothar Waggonfabrik began an aviation division, which would create one of the first heavy bombersused in war, the Gotha G.I, a twin-engine airplane that would drop bombs on the Great Britain during the First World War.

5 Feb 1913: First Lieutenant Michael Moutoussis and Ensign Aristeidis Moraitinis of the Greek Navy conducted the first aerial attack on a warship in history, dropping four bombs on Turkish ships in the Dardanelles, albeit without inflicting any casualties.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/February_1913#February_5.2C_1913_.28Wednesday.29

Some time ago I have read an article saying that in the period between 1910-1914 military budgets were increased in some cases drastically. British and French around 10 percent but Russian around 40, and German above 70!

A study of military budgets during the period you suggest would be a very interesting article...

Indeed... if he was management... the "handwerkers" in that Abteilung went to the Artillery :-)

But of course, the master craftsmen and those with real skills always go to the more important branch of artillery.

Those with no practical skills and huge undeserved egos (ie management) of course go to the infantry.

arbeitsgruppe "passenger toilet comfort" or something.....

Prime qualifications for infantry.

Hello:

It seemingly reads: Plaue in the upper arm, Militaerverein in the center one and 1886 in the lower. Or Plaue Military association, 1886. This could well be the insignia of some military related association founded in 1886. The colors could be green/white for the Saxon colors. not a very elegant executed insignia with the crown added as an afterthought obscuring some letters in the Militaerverein and the Plaue instead of Plauen ( a town in Saxony).

Bernhard H. Holst

I agree with your analysis. I struggled to read a "V" under the crown and couldn't "see" one; however, "Verein" is the only thing that makes sense.

I immediately thought Plauen also. However, through Google I found there is a Plaue an der Havel in Brandenburg.

The year 1886 held no particular significance in my mind; I subtracted 50 and 100 and still found nothing particular about 1836 or 1786 (other than the year of Frederick (II) the Great's death) - but I doubt there is any connection to Der Alte Fritz.)

This is the first I have ever seen of these in 40 years.......

Nice find must have been privately made......

Mike

Agree, pretty nice find. Once again, GMIC membership shows some unusual items.

Great thread and photos! The perfect companion to our discussion in The Great War forum regarding the Balkan Wars...

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/56754-the-balkan-wars-1912-13-as-prelude-to-the-great-war/

It would be great for you to join us with your perspectives!

Is it unusual that a Sanitaetsobergefreiter receives a Marineartillerie badge?

Nice thread. Thanks for sharing.

Now I have to go find a bit of chocolate!

Nicely done! Egészségedre

In memory of the Hero City of Stalingrad and Marshal Chuikov:

Today is the 70th Anniversary of the end of the battle of Stalingrad - and today, Volgograd is again named, "Stalingrad"

NY Times article... http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/01/world/europe/volgograd-named-stalingrad-again-at-least-sometimes.html?ref=europe&_r=1&

I am guessing it was a clientel who are not the average medal collector.... maybe a medical institution or something?

Don't you mean "mental institution"?

Interesting, I was not aware they had got that far north. Was this JEB Stuart?

Larry

Ralph is the expert. But I can Google!

http://www.stalbansraid.com/

Definitely Rick

But there should be a reason for inluding this particular guy "on the list"

Anyway, let it be my im-very-ho

As I said, no doubt Stalingrad figured into the choice of a DSC. Few foreigners received a DSC in WW2. Bernard Montgomery only received a DSM. I am not intending to take anything away from Chuikov for his fight at Stalingrad.

Of course, I'm " over thinking" into the question as well. However, in January 1944, US Ambassador Harriman sent several cables to Washington complaining of a Soviet "runaround" on several proposals from the Tehran Conference, as well as on several proposals sent by Washington to the military attache MG Deane. Having been in the attache business myself and having worked in Washington, it is easy for me to imagine someone saying, "Look the one year anniversary of Stalingrad is coming up; let's toss Chuikov a DSC as a symbol of how important we view the Soviet war effort and hopefully, that will help things on the political front." I think that's the "reason" you seek for why he's on this list.

I guess with both of our "humble opinions", we both win!

I wonder what this extraordinary heroism might be

The awarding was made almost after one year in January 1944 ....

Not on citations for soviets

These are pretty vague usually.

I think the main reason for this awarding was his participation in Stalingrad battle.

And since he was HSU he got DSC (standard combination that we know from these photos http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/8433-us-army-decorations-awarded-to-red-army-personnel-in-world-war-ii/page-6)

Well, Stalingrad probably figured into the equation, but it was by no means the "main" reason. US awards to foreigner senior officers are mainly political in nature. A gesture. A token. Probably during the visit of a US military delegation. That's why the citations are vague. I wouldn't "think" too much into this...unless you have documented evidence that it was specifically for Stalingrad.

Speaking of "raids," I always try to get up to St Alban's, Vt. every October 19th or so... just across the US-Canada border.

There is a significance to this, which escapes some historians.

No BBQ.

But it was the northernmost battle of the Civil War. St. Alban's Raid by Confederate raiders. Aided and abetted by Canada - some argue that also means tacit recognition of the Confederacy by Britain.

From my point of view I would respectfully agree to differ. When I am researching an historical event I attempt to strip away the veneer of interpretations placed at a later time and try and see events as they were viewed at the time, surprisingly I often find it makes more sense of the later events than current interpretatons. While later events are bound to creep in ones thoughts it is often instructive to try and eliminate them and get back to the time of the event

There are many schools of historical thought (just as each religion has its miriad of sects) and they all have their followers and validity and there are those who would disagree with my views wholeheartedly.

If you ever get bored and want a really good belly laugh, many years ago there was a (spoof) critique of Winnie the Pooh. The Christian and Marxist interpretations are a real scream, alas I don't have it any more, like many books I owned I lent it to some one many years ago and that was the last I ever saw of it.

If any one can locate it I would love to read it again.

All the best,

Paul

Paul, I appreciate your perspective; it's a very worthwhile approach. But with all due respect, even your "attempt to strip away the veneer of interpretations placed at a later time" is nothing more than your own interpretation. Unless we have actually participated or witnessed first-hand an event, it's merely "interpretation" no matter what attempt we make to be "purely" objective.

While you may not agree; actually, I'm advocating your approach with this thread. Conventional historical interpretations put little importance on the Balkan Wars. I am arguing, even if in a feeble way, that the facts suggest something more... That Europe did not just "stumble" into war in August 1914; that events surrounding the Balkan Wars show that some powers were already contemplating war...and that circumstances surrounding the Balkan Wars were more than a sideshow, but rather essential tinder to the ultimate conflaguration.

I realize your view on this may be different - as others have argued above as well; however, I'm curious about your statement regarding Poincare. In keeping with the timeline (I'm trying to not jump ahead chronologically - we have a lot of ground to cover before the Guns of August); Poincare was Prime Minister, but was elected French President on 17 January 1913. What are your views of his policies in 1913 that put Europe on the course to war?

Gladly, however, you seemed to have already arrived at the only logical conclusion to any discussion we might have on the subject.

In reality, we can discuss a war between our two countries (even though we didn't become a nation until 1867), accept the other fellow's opinion as his right to his own opinion, and part as friends.

If that isn't something both sides can be proud of, I'm not sure what is. Sounds like everyone, except the First Nations, won.

Regards

Brian

Deal! Although, I prefer to learn more about the Fenian Raids.