IrishGunner

I like it as is - as much hard wear as the veteran who won those battle honors.

A favorite topic of conversation between fomer Warsaw Pact and NATO officers during my time as military attache in Europe was "Where were you posted during the Cold War?" I can just imagine these gentlemen exchanging WWII war stories...would have been interesting times in the 50s-70s.

An American poet - a different war - the US Civil War:

Walt Whitman's "Artilleryman's Vision"

While my wife at my side lies slumbering, and the wars are over long,

And my head on the pillow rests at home, and the vacant midnight passes,

And through the stillness, through the dark, I hear, just hear, the

breath of my infant,

There in the room as I wake from sleep this vision presses upon me;

The engagement opens there and then in fantasy unreal,

The skirmishers begin, they crawl cautiously ahead, I hear the

irregular snap! snap!

I hear the sounds of the different missiles, the short t-h-t! t-h-t!

of the rifle-balls,

I see the shells exploding leaving small white clouds, I hear the

great shells shrieking as they pass,

The grape like the hum and whirr of wind through the trees,

(tumultuous now the contest rages,)

All the scenes at the batteries rise in detail before me again,

The crashing and smoking, the pride of the men in their pieces,

The chief-gunner ranges and sights his piece and selects a fuse of

the right time,

After firing I see him lean aside and look eagerly off to note the effect;

Elsewhere I hear the cry of a regiment charging, (the young colonel

leads himself this time with brandish'd sword,)

I see the gaps cut by the enemy's volleys, (quickly fill'd up, no delay,)

I breathe the suffocating smoke, then the flat clouds hover low

concealing all;

Now a strange lull for a few seconds, not a shot fired on either side,

Then resumed the chaos louder than ever, with eager calls and

orders of officers,

While from some distant part of the field the wind wafts to my ears

a shout of applause, (some special success,)

And ever the sound of the cannon far or near, (rousing even in

dreams a devilish exultation and all the old mad joy in the

depths of my soul,)

And ever the hastening of infantry shifting positions, batteries,

cavalry, moving hither and thither,

(The falling, dying, I heed not, the wounded dripping and red

heed not, some to the rear are hobbling,)

Grime, heat, rush, aide-de-camps galloping by or on a full run,

With the patter of small arms, the warning s-s-t of the rifles,

(these in my vision I hear or see,)

And bombs bursting in air, and at night the vari-color'd rockets.

Interestingly, Great Britain is the only major medal-winning country that does not offer cash incentives to its medalists. Although I did read that the British athletes are to get a postage stamp, which may pay royalties. The US pays $25,000 to gold medalists, $15,000 to silver, and $10,000 for bronze.

An interesting and useful discussion. Thanks for your efforts.

Alfred Lord Tennyson - THE CHARGE OF THE LIGHT BRIGADE

Something upon which we can agree, Mervyn. Tennyson's war-related poetry is simply among the best.

Cannon to right of them,

Cannon to left of them,

Cannon in front of them

Volley'd and thunder'd;

Storm'd at with shot and shell,

Boldly they rode and well,

Into the jaws of Death,

Into the mouth of Hell

Rode the six hundred.

Could be custom made for Afghani armed forces unit? Did we give their Army or Police Army style Digi-camo?

I seriously doubt we've given US Army ACU's to Afghan security forces. I have not seen a picture of any Afghan forces in ACUs. And if we have, imagine the blow-back considering the rash of "insider" attacks against ISAF troops recently. I'm convinced this is a theater produced unoffical patch - a spoof of the SEAL badge.

I agree with Paul; this looks like the US Army's digital Universal Camoflague Pattern for the ACU's. The UCP was replaced in 2010 by a digital MultiCam pattern for use in Afghanistan. Definitely not the USMC's MARPAT camoflague (the first US military digital pattern adopted in 2002).

I suspect this badge is some novelty/fantasy piece locally produced in Afghanistan. The design is not any US Army official badge/insignia of which I'm aware. Strangely, it is reminiscent of the US Navy SEAL badge; the eagle is very similar. However, the SEAL badge has an anchor, trident, and flintlock pistol. Your badge's eagle seems to be holding a RPG and AK-47 - further suggesting the fantasy theory.

Great info in this thread. I don't have much info on the SA artillery and this is priceless for me... I'll have to dig out my SAHA medal and add to the thread. Thanks again.

You are correct in thinking this is a member of the Ancient and Honorable Artillery Company of Massachusetts. I telephoned and emailed the historian at the headquarters in Boston and he confirmed this was a member of the unit.

Great that the mystery is solved! Were they able to give you a name of the man?

for all I know, they could have been worn by the Portier of the Hotel Sacher or a conductor of a Stassenbahn in Hesse.

This gave me a good laugh.

Interesting badges. Hope you discover the truth.

Could the number on the buttons be 1638 (instead of just 638)? The Ancient and Honorable Artillery Company of Massachusetts was founded in 1638. It was established as a military company in 1638 to train young officers for service in the various militias of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. It's is now a quasi-military service organization. See it's website: http://www.ahac.us.com/index.htm

You will see that today they were uniforms very similar to the current US Army uniforms. In the 19th Century perhaps they also wore a uniform similar to the active Army, but somewhat different.

I haven't been able to find any photographic evidence, but I'd bet a couple bucks that this uniform is The Ancient and Honorable Artillery Company of Mass.

They have contact info on their website; perhaps an email with the image attached could confirm or deny the thought.

At least 70s or 80s. But in my honest opinion, this is a late 90s piece or even a reproduction. This type proliferates at the Warsaw flea market. The 1. Warsaw Mechanized Division was an active unit and used the same insignia until 2011. Despite it being a Red Army Division, the post-communist Polish Army kept the lineage of this famous division.

Peter; thanks for the reply.

I turned up on possible MIC based upon the last name and Regt #; a Gunner in the Royal Artillery and a Pack Battery. It was selling for $35 US; not much for a Vic actually. I'll be back in that area in 3 weeks and might just go ahead and buy it for the sake of argument.

Thanks for the reply, Rob.

Of course, who would fake an Indian Army Vic and sell it in an antique shop in Pennsylvania, USA for next to nothing? Strangely enough, it had a WWII US Victory Medal ribbon attached. I'll be back in that area in 3 weeks, might just go ahead and buy it (if it's still there) just for the sake of argument.

The name and Regt # turned up one MIC that listed him as a Gunner in the Royal Artillery and a Pack Battery.

I saw a British Vic Medal to an Indian Halvidar in an antique shop this weekend, but was concerned that it felt "lighter" than other Brit Vic's in my collection. It didn't have a nice "heft" and seemed detail seemed "thin" on the obverse side. Were Vic's to the Indian Army made differently than others?

Also, the unit was engraved I.G.A - I thought this might be Indian Garrison Artillery, but when checking unit abbrev's on the UK Archives site, no such abbrev was listed.

Any thoughts from the Vic Medal experts?

(cross posted from UK forum)

Bill,

Thanks for your reply. Appreciated. I forgot about the Vic Medals specific forum.

I saw a Brit Vic Medal in an antique mall today - it seemed a bit lighter in heft than other Brit Vic's I have in my collection. It was named to an Indian Havildar. Were medals to the Indian Army minted differently?

The unit marking was - I.G.A. (or at least I think), but looking at the UK Archives site's list of unit abbrev's - this one doesn't appear. I was thinking it was Indian Garrison Artillery - but that does appear to be a unit.

Any thoughts?

I agree with the bird being Native American in style. It is known as a "thunderbird".

http://en.wikipedia....ird_(mythology)

But I don't think this piece has any militaria connection. Close, but not quite. The 45th Infantry Division's (now the 45th Infantry Brigade Combat Team of the Oklahoma National Guard) shoulder patch is similar though. It uses a thunderbird motif.

Of course, artillerymen are always well armed. :cheers:

Impressive.

I don't know who is the old veteran, but the tall man to the right is the President of Azerbaijan, Ilham Heydar Aliyev. It appears the veteran is wearing the Defense of the Caucasus Medal on his lapel. The Caspian and Baku oil fields were the German objective for the offensive into the Caucasus, but Stalingrad got in the way.

Nicely done. Pula is a really nice town - love the Croatian coast.

Motivated to dig out my old notes on Captain JS Carter, seems like a good time to provide some "new" interesting details.

Something I found to be especially interesting - since I had always been curious about the sport of crew since I frequently see the university teams training on the Potomac River here in Washington DC and since a chance visit to Henley-on-Thames. I recently discovered that Carter was a Blue for Cambridge's rowing team and the #5 on Cambridge's 1903 winning crew in The Boat Race between Oxford and Cambridge. The entire crew consisted of famous rower W.H. Chapman (also a WWI KIA with the Yorkshires on 17 Aug 1915), P.H. Thomas, S.R. Beale, C.W.H. Taylor, H.B. Grylls, J. Edwards-Moss, R.H. Nelson, B.G.A. Scott. The 1903 race was one of "controversy" since the newly appointed starter had trouble with the " antediluvian double-barrelled pistol which had been used for the start since time immemorial [possibly 1884]" and couldn't get it passed half-cocked. The strong tide pulled Cambridge's boat forward by almost a length before the gun went off and the Oxford boat never caught up. Lt. Cdr F.S. Kelly, DSC, RNVR in the losing Oxford boat was also a KIA on 13 Nov 1916.

A footnote put him at 13 stone 4 pound; around 186 lbs - as a rower - a lot of muscle I'm sure.

As Rick Research stated above - you MUST research - you never know what you'll find - sometimes quite easily.

A year or more ago, I also had a chance to pick up an 1897 Jubilee Medal named to Carter's father, J.P. Carter, who served at Eton College at the time, but alas the budget did not allow the 150+ Brit Pounds it would have taken to win the auction.

You always come up with great pieces. Thanks for sharing.