IrishGunner

Bring back memories?

http://wikimapia.org...rdan-Mamikonian

Dan

Nah, just made me thirsty. :beer:

Dan, that's the statue! It might be no surprise that right across the street from this statue is a little cafe - at the edge of the flea market - that had the coldest Kilikia beer. It was a great spot to have a couple beers, smoke a cigar, watch the "scenery" and admire all my great purchase from the flea market. Thus, I never walked across the street to snap the photo. :whistle:

Hi,

All the information i found on this medal said it was an Armenian War medal for bravery.

One picture had it attached to a red,blue and yellow striped ribbon, not sure if that is correct though.

Regards Eddie.

Eddie; interesting - can you give us the source and some pictures? This could be significant.

This is definitely not a post-Soviet decoration of the Republic of Armenia. The Ministry of Defense and Office of the President websites show those very clearly. There is a modern day decoration: The Order "Vardan Mamikonian" awarded by the President.

From the Armenian President's website: "The Order "Vardan Mamikonian" is awarded for exclusive courage, displayed when carrying out military duties to the Motherland, as well as for significant services provided for the construction of the military and the securing of the combat training of the forces." The attached image is the modern Order.

It would make sense that anything with Mamikonian would be for bravery. It's possible this is from the 1918-22 Armenian Republic. The Armenians were at constant war during that time with the Turks, the Georgians, the Azerbaijanis, the Bolsheviks. If this is a bravery medal from that time period, I would think it would be quite scarce.

Thanks for the info! Now, I have two photos with awards that are not in my collection - more things for the want list.

An image of our friend. I always meant to take a picture of his statue in Yerevan; but never got around to it... :rolleyes:

Definitely Armenian from the writing on the front. And the image is Vartan Mamikonian - one of Armenia's legendary heroes. He fought an overwhelming Persian army in 451 and although he was defeated, the Persians took heavy casualties and retreated. He is credited with saving Armenian culture and religion from oblivion. There is a huge statue to him in Yerevan; near the flea market where I used to buy all my Soviet medals.

On the back the design under the sword is the Armenian symbol for eternity. However, I can't say this is a military award. Remember, Armenia didn't exist as an independent country until after WWI - before it was under the Persians, then Ottomans. By 1920, it was no longer independent and was under the Soviets - regaining independence after the fall of the Soviet Union.

Certainly old, but I really don't think it's a military medal. The word on the front appears to be the name Marmikonian; in Armenia: Մամիկոնյան There is also an initial before the word. Vartan was made a saint in the Armenian Church. This could be a Saint Marmikonian religious medal or charm.

Looking at this again, the cross definitely isn't a MVO - the bottom arm appears more flat rather than as the two-pointed arms on the MVO. The last medal still looks like a Wuerttemberg Dienstauszeichen to me...(could officers receive this?). Could the second cross be a Friedrichsordern?

Can anyone tell me what position was held by Major Kurt Kaspar Adolf Gudewill, of Feld-Artillerie Regiment 9; KIA in Belgium on 22.08.1914 near Tirlemont?

Rang-Liste info? Anything?

Well, its obvious that he does not have the good looks of an infantryman.. :-) Nicht War IrishGunner?

tghanks

Chris

Well, I wouldn't know, I'm attracted to those with more rounded hips, longer hair, and considerably more feminine chromosomes. :rolleyes:

?.... ?..... Offz. M...?

5/21 F. Art. Regt. XI. b. ???

Dear ?....

The best Greetings

from the Field send you your

Karl. Let's hear something

from you soon please. ?...

doing well. Karl

Best Greetings to Family Maestlo ??

I hope you understand a little bit, my english is so bad.

Regards Mike

Mike, clearly your English is better than my reading of Suetterlin! Thanks, that helps me with the overall meaning. This seems to be the usual message on the post cards.

In case you are curious; here's the front of the post card that the U. Offz. sent to Familie Schenk in Frankfurt a/M. on 16.9.16 (probably from Romania where the 11. b Div. was at the time). A typical patriotic theme.

Hoping someone can give me some quick assistance on this message written by an U. Offz. in the 5. Batterie, 21. K.B. FAR., XI b. Div. I got everything in the Absender line except his name...begins with "M"? I can only get a few words from the message; so, can't yet figure the meaning.

Leutnant Kummer of G.R. 10 sounds good. He was the recipient of The Ehrenmedaille für Verdienste im Kriege. As Chip pointed out, he was rather youthful to be in the 1914 Rangliste and in fact was promoted to Fähnrich on 19 Sep 14 and to Leutnant (provisionally without a Patent) on 20 Oct 14. He subsequently received a Patent as a Leutnant backdated to 19 Feb 13 and was promoted to Oberleutnant on 20 Jun 18 (20.6.18 Z4z).

Regards

Glenn

Glenn, thanks for the additional info. Must have been a tough kid - or just lucky - to earn the awards. Wonder what he ended up doing after the First War and into the Second.

Gentlemen, thanks for the great work! It seems the consensus that our young hero Kummer was in the 10. Grenadiers. So, any more info from the Rang-Liste?

Mike, Ehrenmedaille für Verdienste im Kriege of the Duchy of Saxe-Meiningen was my best guess too; and I can see the possibility of the 95. Regt monogram, but it's difficult to tell. Here's a touched up scan of the strap - I'm afraid it won't get much better consider the angle and my capability.

Kummer, huh? Bummer. But at least if the unusual ribbon turns out to be Saxe-Meiningen all is not lost. I suppose no one has a Rang-list?

Arnim, I think you are missing the point. I don't see that anyone is attacking a businessman that wants to sell copies, reproductions, are facsimiles (note I didn't say "fakes") - as long as they are identified as such, not only for the original sale, but for all future and subsequent sales as well.

I hope you won't take this wrong - my intention is not to disparage. However, most of us aren't fortunate enough to have inherited fine - genuine - collections. Most of us (and probably you as well) have to purchase items with disposable income (of which I'm sure many of us have less these days) and we don't need more challenges (no matter how unintended) in our quest for desired items. That is the point. The purveyor of reproductions and art pieces needs to accept responsibility for even the unintended consequences of his actions. That is all we are asking. If there is the perception that a merchant flaunts that responsibility, then he should accept the criticism and take steps to remove any doubt. That is all we are asking. If not, then he should also expect to be shunned by the very people he might want to attract as customers - assuming he is intending to sell his art pieces to the collecting public in the first place.

You are correct; there is a market for replicas. Look at replica firearms for example; clearly, those are big business - but also easily identified as replicas. And I for one will never own a genuine Pour le Merite, but have contemplated seeking out a nice replica. I'm sure there are other serious collectors who have considered the same. But I also shy away from sellers who are not part of the greater "gentleman's collecting community" regardless of what they sell - replicas or genuine.

Unfortunately, there are unscrupulous profit-seekers out there - who can and will take advantage of the reputable businessman's effort to fill the replica demand. All we are asking is for the responsible businessman to take steps to ensure that doesn't happen. Responsible is the key word. Simply arguing that a merchant has the right to take advantage of fools and idiots doesn't sound very responsible in my opinion. But to each his own. And each of us have the right to shun such a merchant. Like I said, I don't think you'll change any minds around here on this point.

I really like this post card for its clear photo and unusual ribbon with the EK2 in the button-hole. It looks like some Saxon ribbons (maybe even Baden), but haven't seen it in a button-hole before.

His cockade suggests Saxon - at least to my untrained eye. Not much help from the shoulder straps; a difficult to see cypher/monogram. Any help here appreciated.

And perhaps most interesting - hoping Hardy can give a good reading - the name at the bottom looks like "Runner" to me... Or is that just fantasy? Could be "Rummer" too - too many humps perhaps.

A side note - this young officer looks like he's 12 years old and already decorated twice!

This artillery officer has a nice little spange; EK2 and two others. I think the second one is a Bavarian MVO, but I'm just as likely to be wrong. The third would seem to be a Dienstauszeichen - but which year and which state? Almost looks Wuerttemberg.

Any help?

PT Barnum said that a fool was born every minute.

True. But I seriously doubt you'll find a sympathetic ear for your line of reasoning here, Arnim. One of the genuine purposes of this forum - at least I sincerely believe this - is to educate those "fools" so that the shucksters can't take advantage of them. That's the real benefit of a "gentleman's collecting community". Yes, it is a hobby - a diversion - but for many of us, part of the joy in that diversion is educating others (not only to collect pretty bits and bobs) and sharing our knowledge. You would likely find equally "obsessed" behavior in any collecting hobby. It's the nature of the beast. Someone genuinely interested in selling to the collecting community (and not out to simply fleece the fools of their cash) would understand and respect that nature. (Oh, and by the way, no one here would begrudge an honest businessman his fair profit.)

You get what you pay for.

There is so much contradiction and hyperbole in that statement that I don't know where to begin; that's the heart of this discussion - honestly getting exactly what one pays for - whether it be a copy or genuine. Unfortunately, the only truth in that statement is that only the informed truly get what they pay for and then only from honest dealers. All others are simply gambling or shucking and never really "get what they (sic) pay for..."

No one's life depends on this - no one will die - and, again, you are right - it's only a hobby; but that doesn't mean it shouldn't have standards and a level of decency between honest human beings.

#6; neck award -- Order of St. Michael and St. George?

We're posting in stereo...

Do you also notice something (must be an MID) on his victory medal?

Frank; agreed -- looks like something on the VM - probably MID.

I was trying to figure out the GSM -- looks like a device there too, but I am not expert enough to know if that's possible.

#6; I agree with Noor - with the last one being the 1911 Coronation.

#3; less certain, but how about 1914-15 Star, British War Medal, Victory Medal, General Services Medal, LSGC?

#2; I'm almost certain Military Medal, 1914-15 Star, British War Medal, Victory Medal.

Well done as always