IrishGunner

On a serious note though; considering this librarian received a combatant EK...

Given your research, how common was that? I suspect fairly common.

And given the number of EK's just handed to officers - just for being officers...

Maybe the EK isn't a particularly worthy decoration after all. :unsure:

I do that occasionally, but not tonight...

So, that means ... I guess ... that you have been wrong TWICE in this blue moon then. :cheers:

Are you drinking something a bit too strong tonight? :cheeky:

Occasionally? :rolleyes:

If you find to where it fell off the map, see if my missing FAR 9 is there with your RIR 227.

FAR 9 went into hiding too in at the end of 1917. :ninja:

Perfect Chris! This is precisely the detail for which I was hoping.

I wonder why your site didn't come up in any of my Google searches...

(PS: I got a couple award docs today - need to post those - fussartillerie though - not luftshifferabt.)

Les, thanks for the link. As I mentioned in the original post, I already did an internet search and came up with very general information like this wiki article.

Unfortunately, the internet sources lack specific details on the employment of air ships. The implication from the wiki articles like the one you link is that air ships were used almost exclusively for bombing, but it doesn't give a good idea of the unit types associated with powered air ships (presumably used for bombing) and the units with tethered balloons (presumably used for observation).

Nice chapeau

("Brodie Mia!"? I suppose you will wear this in the garden while singing ABBA songs. )

I couldn't find much on the internet regarding the composition and mission of the Luftschiffer-Abteilungen.

Were these units used for bombing missions or as observers (for artillery?) or both?

The specific unit that raised this question in my mind is Feldluftschiffer-Abteilung Nr. 8

Any information would be appreciated as I know nothing about air ships.

Interesting history and award... Hvala vam! :cheers:

I have yet to make my own order, but this website comes recommended by several other GMIC members.

You can get on CD the Husaren Regiment Nr. 16 history for 5 Euro. Number 1271 on the list.

http://www.military-books.de.vu/

How does this factor with the Pour le Merite? Do we see that being worn as the only other glitter with the EK's?

Seems like at least for aviators, that was the coin of the realm.

Exactly why Hitler wore his... :whistle:

Andreas sent me this in an email before he went to bed...

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote Andreas:

That are one of my problems too. Stellungs-Ziel and Artillerie-Ziel. If we look at the times , we see x+85-x+174 at the Stellungs-Ziel and x+175-x+189 at Artillerie-Ziel. Maybe these are targets, whose should be shot directly?

The amunitions. Splitter means splinter (I think), like a shrapnell. I think the different colours seemed to be gas grenades.

The 15cm s.F.H. could shoot "Grünkreuz", "Blaukreuz" and "Gelbkreuz"

There were

1 green cross (3,9l Diphosgen)

1 green cross varaiation (3,9l Diphosgen, Brommethylethylketon)

1 green cross varaiation (3,9l Brommethylethylketon)

1 green cross varaiation (3,9l Phenylcarbylaminchlorid)

1 green cross (Grünkeuz 1): 30-70% Diphosgen, 70-30% Chlorpikrin

2 green crosses (Grünkreuz 2, Grünkreuz-Brisanz): 3,2l 60% Phosgen, 28% Diphosgen, 12% Diphenylarsinchlorid, 0,187kg TNT

1 blue cross (Blaukreuz-Brisanz) 1,35kg Diphenylarsinchlorid in 3,47kg TNT

1 or 2 blue crosses (Blaukreuz 1) Diphenylarsinchlorid mixed with Phenylarsinchlorid)

Andreas and I have exchanged a couple emails to sort out the Schießtafel in Post #3; thought I would share with the crowd in case anyone is interested.

Below is what is I know about this fire plan based upon translation and an understanding of artillery fire.

The first number on the left - “9” - is the duration in minutes to shoot at this particular target. The second column reflects “x bis x+9” - “x” being the start of the fire plan and “x+9” being 9 minutes after the start of the fire plan. The data to the left is to be fired for the first 9 minutes of the fire plan. In this case, it looks like the commander simply wrote a “9” to the left to help better see the duration of fire for his battery at this target.

“Klarzeit” is the time the fire plan begins and then goes in set intervals of "x+minutes". This looks like the fire plan began at 0110 hours; this is “x”.

The next set of numbers - “2845” - is range to the target. This would then be converted to the elevation for the gun to adjust; this would come from a published firing table specific to the gun. Since this Schießtafel applies to various calibers of guns, this figure does not appear.

(Actually, 2845 meters doesn't seem all that far for heavy artillery to be away from the target. Of course, the max effective range for the 15cm schwere Feld Haubitze - the gun that this table is likely for - was 8600 meters.)

Artillery fire is effected by weather conditions; a shell flying through the air can be put off course or land short or beyond the target due to weather. So, range is adjusted for Wittungseinfluss (W.E.). I read in the order that the Wetterdienst sends this out by Fernspruch daily; in this case, it doesn't look like the weather had any effect since the range did not change. (Probably was not raining or foggy.)

There is also a remark for “Erhoeung in Grad” - this would be the elevation of the target; however, they didn't make a remark for this; so, the target area was most likely not a hill.

The commander did make a note for “Glw.” - “Gelaendewinkel” - this is a factor that in English we call “site”. This is a factor that considers that the target is at a different elevation than the location of the guns (even though they didn't make a note of the target's elevation.) This is the "-3" and would be applied to the elevation set on the gun.

The “+120” is the direction of fire in degrees. This would be the azimuth of fire set on the gun. (Surprising they used degrees instead of mils.)

The “Wie oft 1 Schuss” tells how often each type of gun listed should fire one round. The blue number to the right under the “Mun.” column is “8” or “9” - this looks like the total number of rounds to be fired for this target. That means this table was prepared for the s.F.H. (schwere Feld Haubitze) because the s.F.H. Should fire one shell every 1 minute 10 seconds. In 9 minutes they should be only able to shoot 7.7 shells; it looks like they rounded up to “8”. I cannot read the hand-writing to figure out why “9”.

This continues for the other targets at the other “x+ times”. Do you see in the 90 minutes fire time, the commander crossed out the round per minute factor for the s.F.H. Making a new time for each shell. This also suggests this was made for the 15cm s.F.H.

Only things that I do not quite understand are: "Stellungsziel" and "Artl.Ziel" on the left side. In the computations these are very different ranges. Maybe the Stellungsziel is shooting at the positions in the trenches since it is a shorter range (2845). And the Artl. Ziel is counter-battery fire against the enemies artillery - at a greater range (6300).

I also do not know the difference of the "blau" gruen" and "splitter" munitions; types of shells, but how they are different, I do not know.

Sicher, Ich kann deutsch.

My email can be linked from my profile...

There are a few abreviations and terms, that I don´t understand for 100%.....

It would be very difficult, adding the translation in english...

Well, if it isn't a thousand pages, könnte ich vielleicht mit der Übersetzung helfen.

And as an artilleryman, I might be able to decipher some of the abbreviations.

Just a thought... :whistle:

You should write an article using these plans... ;)

Damn, the time that must have taken to prepare by hand!

In the early days of my artillery career, we would do target lists and overlays ("measle sheets") by hand, but those were cocktail napkin drawings compared to this... Thankfully, not long after we started using computers and digital communications.

Thanks for sharing this bit of history. :cheers:

If I read correctly, this source states FAR 9 stayed with Arko 18 until June 1917 - rather than the February 1917 that the other sources suggest.

Curiously, "251 Div" places 9 FAR with the 3rd Naval Division only for 1917.

Thanks for the reference book tip; I would think the German source would be more accurate. (Fortunately, I am fairly fluent in German!)

I have been waiting to buy a bunch of books since I will be moving in a few months and need to be concerned about the shipping weight of our household goods. Will add these to the list.

Ok, I am stuck again. Who said feldartillerie is easier than fussartillerie?

I am taking a look at Feld-Artillerie-Regiment General-Feldmarschall Graf Waldersee (Schleswigsches) Nr.9

From "251 Divisions" and from Chronik, I have found FAR 9 with 18. Infantrie Division ... but... but...

Only until Feb 1917; then FAR 9 disappears from the Division when the 18. Artillerie-Brigade is dissolved and the Artillerie-Kommandeur 18 is formed (keeping FAR 45).

So, any clues where the Itzehoe kanoniers ended up?

Please save me from going through my pdf copy of "251 Divs" page by page looking for FAR 9. :banger:

Andy, see my other post - it is the regimental history for the Fussartl. Regt. 10

I hope you can find it in a library or other archive in Germany.

Here's possibly a good reference - if you can find it somewhere there in Germany:

Helmuth Wendlandt:

"Niedersächsisches Fußartillerie-Regiment Nr. 10 im Weltkriege 1914-1918"

1935 Berlin: Freyhoff in Oranienburg.

Here's something just to make it even more interesting;

According to "251 Divsions", 1. Abteilung, 10. Fussartl. Regt. 10 (Stab, 1., 3., 4. Batt) were part of the 1. Infantrie Division in 1918.

This source has for the 1. Inf. Div:

19 April - 2 May; south of the Somme

2 May - early July; rest vicinity Peruwelz

early July; in reserve near Hirson

July 16-20; in the line at St. Hilaire

During Reims the 1. Inf. Div. fought near Brois de Vrigney

Of course, there is no reference specifically in this division history; the heavy artillery could have (and probably did) fire in support of other divisions/actions while the 1. Inf. Div was not in the line.

But hopefully this narrows your search down from the 3. AOK level to a narrower area.

Very interesting documents.

Wish I could help you with the FussArtl. Regt. Nr. 10 info... And I wish you luck. :cool: