Beau Newman

Thanks guys.

Ulsterman - I don't recall George mentioning where this came from. I got the impression that he had owned it for a while at that point. You are right about being fortunate to have pieces from his collection. I've still got everything I ever bought from him and never saw a bad piece on his table at OMSA. I even got his set of Nimmerguts through FJP Auction so, he comes to mind whenever I look something up. Maybe, one day, I'll have 10% of his knowledge on the subject.

Rick - I have the Peter O-H book and had reviewed the info. in there. It seems to give some good numbers on the Godet pieces (this cross appears to be silver). I am still curious if these numbers reflect the total number awarded or if significant quantities of the Meybauer pieces were also awarded. Just based on my experience, it must be pretty rare. I have only seen a handful of other examples.

When I bought this piece from George Seymour several years ago, I assumed that this was a private purchase piece, similar to the Godet EKIs with added hooks. However, most of the information I have since seen leads me to believe that this is a "standard issue" type. Is there any information on variants of this award, numbers awarded & etc? Thanks.

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The "GODET" is a little faint but, it is there.

Nimmergut does show a variant with a 2-sided crown by Meybauer. However, the pin and hinge assembly on your example does not look like the type normally seen on Meybauer pieces.

For what it's worth, William Hamelman's book on German Wound Badges shows a "Type III" badge with this hilt design and a roughened rather than pebbled background. Having said that, I still don't like the whole pin set-up.

Thanks guys. As always, I'm appreciative and impressed with the knowledge available here.

The award of the swords on ring for the Ernestine Orders and Medals has always been a bit of a mystery to me. I know that these were not created until the mid '30's. Nimmergut states that they were awarded to "friends of the movement and armed forces". This is still a little vague. Can anyone enlighten me on the background of these? For instance, did one aready have to hold the medal or order prior to receiving the swords on ring? The lone example from my collection is pictured. Thanks in advance.

These are the versions for non-christians. According to Nimmergut, this type was phased out after 1861. Very rare.

It appears to be the Breast Star of the Grand Cross of the Saxe-Ernestine House Order. The Grand Cross Badge is at the end of the sash off camera near his sword hilt. This was actually awarded as late as 1935.

Well, that gives me another avenue to go down. Many thanks.

I've often wondered about the vet pin, it seems to be strategically located to cover up the swastika on the Civil Service Cross. Even if it does turn out to be unrelated, I will leave it as is. I prefer to keep things as I found them.

#7 is from a SWA veteran's group. By all rights, it should have been replaced by a HC by the time this group was mounted.

The veteran's badge:

This is a group that I have tried to attribute for several years. When I first got it, I was excited to find the small attached veteran's badge with the name "E. Dobbelin" engraved on the suspension bar. I figured that a little research would soon reveal more about Herr Dobbelin. Many years later, I still know nothing more than he was a career NCO who received a wartime commission, saw service at some point in German Southwest Africa, was likely a native of Reuss or saw service with a Reuss unit and was in the civil service up to at least 1936. It seems odd that there is no Hindenburg Cross given that this was put together after its' introduction but, I long ago stopped wondering about the loose enforcement of the regulations.

The only German ribbon that is close is the Saxe-Coburg-Gotha 1899 Jubilee Medal. But that seems out of place on a Wurttemberg bar.

I agree with you guys that these are not the typical Wagner made 1870s era crosses as seen on the Bavarian group below. This double ring type is often seen with the 25 year oakleaves with the double ring attachment that allowed it to be mounted directly to the cross instaed of the ribbon. I think there is a good chance that this type probably dates from the 1895 period like the 25 year devices. The detail on the core is very good, thoughnot as crisp as a Wagner piece and the relief is quite high with the obverse crown protruding above the frame. An almost identical example is shown on Page 1047 of Vol. II of Nimmergut. I think these are old but likely private purchase "spangenstucke" crosses.

The reverse of the frackspange:

The reverse of the regulation group:

A close-up of one of the EKs:

I just took delivery on this interesting pair of 1870 EK groups. They were being sold separately but appear to have been to the same recipient. The 7 bar combination is correct for the 3rd Cavalry Division which consisted of the 8th Kur. and the 5th, 7th and 14th Uhlan Regts. Since the 14th was a Hannoverian unit, we can rule it out because of the Koniggratz Cross. I haven't been able to find detailed order of battle for Koniggratz so, I don't know which of the other units were present there. Both Iron Crosses are later types with a double ring suspension and "white metal" frames as shown in item 2537 on Page 1047 of Nimmergut, Vol. II. The regulation mounted group has the odd non-standard 25 year oak leaf like that shown on Page 150 of "The Iron Time". The frackspange mounted group has a standard 25 year device but, the othe awards appear to be private purchase examples that have been plated to provide more flash.

One other observation - The ribbon for the Hessen medical cross should be red with narrow silver metallic sttripes near the edges. This one isn't even close.

Here is a Pre-1905 Knight 2nd Class of the Bavarian MVO that was likely once paired with a 3rd Class St. Stanislaus. Why the SS got "liberated" is anyone's guess.

The next to last one is the Barbara Cross, a veteran's piece for former heavy artillerymen.

And a close-up of the 2 VMs:

The reverse:

Here is a Baden group I have had for a while that has both the Silver VM and the Large Gold VM. Both are on the combatant ribbon and both appear to be late plated zinc types. One problem - According to all the infomation I can find, the Large Gold VM was never awarded on this ribbon although about 500 awards of the small version were made. I can't find anything wrong with the bar that would indicate that it has been played with or is a recent fabrication. The wear and aging is consistent with a group that has been together for a long time. Any thoughts?

Hello Kevin,

Thanks for the information.

I have been trying for ages to get a copy of the book "Deutscheland Orden & Ehrenzeichen 1800-1945" by Jorg Nimmergut.

Cheers,

Mike

The new edition is available on German ebay. Do a search for "Nimmergut" and several should come up. About 40 Euros plus shipping. The new edition is quite a bit larger than previous years.