Beau Newman

I recently picked this up as a restoration project.  Plus, I don't have a group with a NC Hungarian Medal.  It is an odd construction.  It almost looks like it was put together in pieces.  The 1st two ribbons with missing pendants are sewn up with yellow thread and have suspension clasps while the rest are sewn up with red thread and have no clasps.  The Hungarian drape is different than the others.

I know the 1st missing pendant would be the Zahringen Merit Cross but the 2nd solid green ribbon is a bit of a mystery.  It probably was a bit darker originally based on the reverse side color.  I can't come up with anything Baden and the Saxon Labor Medal seems like a stretch.  Any suggestions?

Many Thanks!

This arrived recently.  It's interesting.  It includes a rather rare Silver Medal of the Karl Friedrich Order named to "PAGENSTECHER", an enlisted award.  It also has a 20 year Prussian Reserve Officer's Cross and a 1914 Iron Cross.  Since it is a reverse mounting, the 2 Baden awards are both placed behind the Prussian awards.  Unless this has been played with (always a possibility) it appears that the recipient served in a Baden unit in the Franco-Prussian War and served in the Prussian Army later in life into WWI.  I looked for Pagenstechers in the 1914 Rank List and found a few.  The only one that looked like a possibility was a Dr. Pagenstecher who was a medical officer in the Landwehr Inspectorate in Braunschweig.  If anyone has the 1870/71 rolls for the Karl Friedrich Medal, I would be interested to see if a Pagenstecher appears.

Personally - I would give this one a pass.  If you search through the older posts, there is a very good discussion on these from a while back.

Here are some better shots.  It is definitely a later piece with the swords integral to the wreath and not applied.  It is marked JGuS 938 so, it is silver gilt.

If it's any help - here is a gold Knight without swords.  It weighs just under 18g including the ribbon and pin.

On 4/14/2016 at 03:13, Solomon said:

Very nice bar

Do you also have a name?

The best I have been able to come up with is an NCO from the 3rd Battl. of the 55th IR.

17 minutes ago, Streptile said:

Interesting Godet case.

According to my research, J. Godet moved from the Schloßfreiheit address in about 1891, so that can date the case and perhaps also the piece, if that's possible.

That's interesting.  The only info I have is the Jacobs book, which mentions a couple of later addresses but not this one.  You can learn something every day on this site. 

It's a bit tardy but, I finally got around to taking some photos today.  The OMSA Convention in August was smaller than in recent years but, there were still finds to be made.  Day one netted these cased pieces from Schwarzburg-Sonderhausen and Saxony:

Day 2 netted 2 Waldeck pieces:

32 minutes ago, Dave Danner said:

Since it is a Bavarian official, the red ribbon is likely for the Prinzregent-Luitpold-Medaille.

You're probably right.

I've recently picked up a couple of interesting non-combat/civilian ribbon bows.  

The first appears to be to a Bavarian official and includes the Ludwig Cross, O. of the Bavarian Crown, St Michael Verdienst Cross, Saxe-Weimar White Falcon, Saxon Albert and a Centenary.

The second is a non-combat Iron Cross, a Saxe-Weimar of some type, Prussian War Service Cross, Hindy Cross, 2 long service, 1936 Olympics and a Bulgarian WWI Commemorative.  Interestingly, the button on this one is marked "For Gentlemen" in English.

Although these are likely untraceable, it would be interesting to know the story behind them.

I can usually get a pretty good idea on most of the straps I come across but, this one has me scratching my head.  It is a very dark green with red piping and sheet brass letters "TK" over "V".  Is it even German?  Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Until 1866, Saxony was more closely aligned with Austria than Prussia.  They fought on the Austrian side in the Austro-Prussian War.  As a result, many of their military traditions had Austrian influences.  The tri-fold mount was one of these.

2 hours ago, Stogieman said:

Here was my best officer's bar

There has to be a story behind a pre-war Bavarian MVO to a Saxon.  

The only unusual Centennial I have is the prinzen on this 1870 Lippe bar.

I found this NCO group at SOS.

Since the LS Medal is an enlisted grade award, wouldn't #2 more likely be the Zahringen Merit Cross?

An 1870 group to a long serving Baden NCO.

The Wurttemberg Wilhelm's Cross with Crown and Swords - 108 awards according to Kleitman.  Look out for fakes.

There are certain grades of awards that were awarded to NCOs.  For instance, Bavarian privates received the 3rd Class MVK while the higher grades went to the higher enlisted ranks.  Officers would get, at least, the enameled 4th Class Order.  Also, the presence of an enlisted long service award is another indication.

On the Saxony/Reuss group above, there are both the Reuss merit medal, an enlisted award, and the Reuss House Order, 3rd Class, an officer's award.  There is also a 15 Year Long Service Cross which was awarded only to enlisted men.  This indicates several years of pre-war service.  This guy probably started the war as an NCO but received a commission sometime later.

A purely officer's bar will often have house orders.  The only long service awards on an officer's bars will be those designated for officers such as the Prussian 25 year cross for line officers or the 20 year cross for reserve officers.  In the case of an officer who had shorter service and had not been awarded a house order, there is no way to tell.  Prussian officers often received only the Iron Cross which was available to all ranks.

Here's the back - appears to be period construction.

Here's one from Saxony and Reuss that started as an NCO and ended up an officer.

A Saxe-Weimar Senior NCO group and a Saxon group with a Meiningen connection.

Just a pair but, very nice.

The Baden Long Service Cross would seem to show that he spent some time in a Baden unit pre-war.