Beau Newman

That's possible but, 3 of the 4 ribbons on the 2nd bar also appear on the bar pictured. It has the 1914 EK, 1939 War Service Cross w/swords, Zahr. w/swords and the HC w/swords. Is it likely that the same recipient may have had simplified set made without the foreign and long service awards?

Wasn't there more in the lot that belonged to the group, or am I mistaken?

There was. The items that were obviously not related to these two are now listed on ebay. There was another sew-on bar with a Zahringen ribbon that does not appear to be related.

The reverses:

This just showed up. They were included in a larger lot of ribbon bars. A matching set of sew-on ribbon bar and lapel ribbons. Other than the order of precedence for the Long Service ribbon, they are identical.

This just arrived. This and the full size spangenstucke example I have will have to suffice until I can find a gold or bronze-gilt issue piece.

Nice detail and high relief with prooflike fields. The quality of these minis seems to have been consistently high.

Excellent information! So, this appears to be from a pre-WWII scout or recon. battalion. Any chance that Neumann-Silkow was the same one who served with Rommel?

Several years ago, I got this silver presentation tray of the type presented to officers upon their retirement or leaving a unit. It has imperial era hallmarks for .830 silver content. It has a script "AA8" in the center and the names of his fellow officers oround the outside. The names are: Ziervogel, von Fabeck, Henke, Troitzsch, von Luck, Friedrichs, von Schkopp, Weisbach, Koch, von Boehn, Graf von Pfiel, von Mitzlaff, Noeske, Dr. Richter, Frhr. v. Furstenberg, Neumann-Silkow, Frhr. v. Eckhardtstein, and Muller. I have attempted to match these names with a particular unit in a particular year but, have had no luck. It is possible that an older tray was used during the Weimar or even WWII era which may explain my difficulty in tying these names together, many of which wre distinguished throughout German history. For example, a von Pfeil was a founder of German Southwest Africa, a General Neumann-Silkow was a division commander in Rommel's Afrika Korps and another von Pfeil commanded a Gruppen in Luftwaffe JG52. Does anyone have an idea of what the "AA8" might designate or what era I should be looking for?

Any comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

I see he was a combatant. Just curious - any idea of the basis of the award of this medal vs. the Mil. Verd. Cross?

Does anyone know how many of these Non Com 1866s were awarded?

Nimmergut note approx. 1,200 awarded compared to approx. 144,000 of the 3 combatant types, combined.

Posted in the NC group thread previously:

The reverse:

The obverse:

My collecting started years ago as a young coin collector. It was drilled into me at an early age that cleaning or polishing is almost never done and I carried that rule over into medal collecting. I can find much pleasure in an old silver medal almost black with patina and would never think of "restoring" it by dipping or polishing it. However, there is the occasional exception.

This came out of Portugal a couple of years ago as a cased Oldenburg PFL Knight 2nd Class w/Crown. When I received it, I noticed 2 things. First, it seemed lighter than the typical silver piece and, second, the black "patina" on the cross appeared more like grime, rather than patina as it didn't show any underlying luster. Against my nature, I broke my "no cleaning" rule with a mild solution and this is what popped out:

I still have a strong anti-cleaning bias but, I no longer say never.

Looks like an early one with that flat suspension.

From the round area in the center, it looks like a screwback that was converted to a pinback. Not an issue piece, for sure. Here is the standard Godet type with added hooks:

It doesn't appear to be a period Wagner piece to me.

An enlisted LS medal with a 1st Class Knight seems a bit odd.

I don't see any obvious red flags but, would want to see much better pictures - especially of the 1870 EKII, since it represents the bulk of that bar's value.

Silver-gilt MSHMs are silver medals that have been gilded later. All issue pieces were either gold or bronze gilt. They have a very strong "prooflike" appearance with a distinct cameo contrast between the devices and the fields.

The S-C-G medal may just be a case of the jeweler replacing the suspension to make it easier to mount.

The interior:

An early style case for the Albert Knight, 1st Class:

For comparison - here is an 1870 MVK group with the swords added later (they were authorized in 1891):

The question is how many classes where awarded w Crown ?

Christer

The 2nd Class Knight was awarded with crown from 1860 to 1918 and without crown from 1906 to 1918. This example appears to be a 2nd Class Knight with Crown. Beyreiss shows 1,234 awards of this grade from 1860 to 1918.

The reverse:

Just an example of "Rare" not necessarily needing to break the bank. The Last Type Saxe-Altenburg Golden Ernestine Medal - 63 awarded from 1914 to 1918. 8 with swords on the ribbon were also awarded in 1917 and 1918.

There were around 28.000 4th classes w X, about 750 3rd classes, plus: many 3rd classes were returned after the winner had died.

That number is surprising. If the MVO followed the basic structure of other awards, the 3rd Class would have been a Major's level award. As generous as they were with the 4th Class, they seen to have been equally stingy with the 3rd.

Excellent info - Many thanks!