Mervyn Mitton

No wonder they gavehim the King's Medal - they must have kept him in reserve for every serious riot ! Seriously, a wonderful and very rar group. Thankyou.

What treasures we've been deprived of - I take Rai Sahib must stand for King ?

Does anyone know what rank the two large stars on the shoulder straps represented?

Ian - why don't you introduce yourself on The Lounge - mention the Macclesfield Fair and your tipstaff collection. People will know who you are then and can welcome you - this is a bit lost at the end of a post. Alan should do the same.

Helen - from the Pitt-Rivers Museum, showed (under Firearms - titled 'Swordsticks' on May 7th.) a link to a few items in the Museum. One of them was a superb example of A Burmese Dha - with carved ivory grip. She was able to show a museum exhibit when I posted the Indo-Persian dagger - and the comparison was excellent for learning about patterns and styles. I am posting a few details of a Dha that I have and hopefully, Helen will show us the Pitt-Rivers more elaborate one ? This style of sword - with no guard - is generic for this part of S.E.Asia - incl. Burma (I won't refer to it as Manaamar - they are a vicious and dictatorial country with their present Govt..) Thailand,Cambodia,Laos and Vietnam, also use this style. The sword is usually carried upright in the small of the back - with the handle projecting upwards over the head. When needed they only have to reach-up and bring the sword straight over and down. Very effective. The Thais are not a warlike people, but when working in the paddy fields there are always snakes - and this is quick. The Burmese are much more warlike and have fought the Thais for the past 800 years. They burnt the former capital Ayuddhya, in the 17th. C. and that was how Bangkok - it's old name ' Krungthep' City of Angels - came to be built. The Dha that I am showing is an executioner's - and is much bigger then the usual type. This one is 47 inches , overall (117cm) and the blade is 31 inches (77cm). The blade has been acid etched with a background and a series of small figures.

I don't think anyone acknowledged KSQ's post of the dirk. It was a good point. The actual dirk he showed is fairly modern - probably to be worn by a piper in a Highland band. With the new knife blade regulatione in the UK - max. is 4inches (10cm) - it is causing problems for all of these types of dress.

Hi - Brian For some reason you rarely see the uniforms of ordinary police in the old colonial admins. - I thought this was very interesting. In Africa, most British countries wore a standardised uniform of grey shirt,shorts and a cap - maybe, someone will have a photo? What was significant with the Indian Police, was that constables used to carry a staff, called a LATHI. It was a most fearsome weapon - about 5 feet high (90 cm.?) and was usually capped with a heavy brass top and could deliver a mortal blow. Their favourite way to use it was in a sweeping motion - at about knee height - about the only way to keep the masses at bay !! I have been many times to India, but the sheer numbers of people is quite frightening. I have some Lathis in UK - will get someone to take photos. Are you going to post the special constables items , you mentioned you were getting - we have some new 'ex- Specials' joined. I made a point of going on the U.S. sub-forum and mentioned this new section - told them we would like posts on THEIR police. May I suggest, that every time one of us goes on another sub-forum - particularly the European ones - that we mention this site and ask them to post on their police ? I have a few more items suitable for this sub-heading and will post them - but, as Leigh said , we should all be looking for items. We asked for this to be added.

I'm taking the liberty of mentioning that the Chairman has split the Police forum into two - and there is now specifically a place for U.S. Police. Your colleagues else where will all be interested to see your pictures and stories etc.. Mervyn

Ian - as a new member myself, may I say Welcome ! to GMIC. You will find your friend, Alan - the Badger, has also joined. Hope to see you posting some of your good tipstaffs - give my love to Ann. Mervyn

Rear of uniform - with close-up of pouch badge. May I say to fellow members - particularly those with a history - or, knowledge of other police forces - please join-in . The success , or failure, of this new sub-forum is in our hands -- and remember, WE ASKED FOR THIS SITE.

To start off this new World Police Forum, I have looked through available photos and have come-up with this rare uniform. For INDIA POLICE pre1947 , when it was still under British admin. Not sure of it's exact date - perhaps someone can help ? The uniform is fairly standard British colonial - what is rare is the dress cross belt. Note the beautiful silver badges with 'IP' - also, the leather pouch , which goes in the small of the back. This has been in a cupboard for over 30 years and I had to get a friend to take photos in UK - dusting wasn't in his job description !!

This is great to see another one - of what, is obviously a generic pattern. Your example is even more heavily decorated, I wonder if their is a difference in 'rank' with the gold on one and silver on the other ? I see what you mean about the points either, having a turned-up end or, a straight one. The armour piercing capabalities of this weapon can be easily seen with the solid construction - particularly, when most tribal armour was chain mail. Didn't Pitt-Rivers have something to do with Dorchester and the excavations at Maiden Castle ? I acquired at auction - some years ago - three carrier bags of stone age flint implements and I am sure it mentioned his name. I suppose the Dorchester Museum sold them off - they must have thousands from all the excavations ?

Leigh - I have been going 'blind' trying to look at the buttons and badge through a glass. The badge looks like it has three uprights - am having a badge ref. book brought back from shop tomorrow. I thought the double strap Sam Browne was standard at the start of WW1 - it was in the Boer War ? I could see the crossed rifles above the chevrons and above those is an Edward 7th. crown. On his shoulders are the crossed flags for his rank - with a Tiger badge underneath. Will come back if I can track down his Regt. badge. The photo is an original - in the broken cardboard mount - it just enlarge too well. Mervyn ( It's stupid that both Regt.s sound correct in my mind)

Tony. Thankyou for taking interest in the post. I found ref. to the Zwiccu in a history of Arthur. I also made enquiries and found that this tribe was in one of the invasions from Scandinavia in the 7th.C.. Where they settled in Shropshire was at the confluence - or, joining of two rivers - which is the meaning of my surname - Mitton. My savage ancestors must have been the chiefs , because there is still the village of Mitton, the Manor of Mitton and the Mitton and Mermaid pub. Although they are related I have never met the present owners - cadet , or, junior members of families break away and set-up on their own all the time. The Angles pre-dated the Saxons by some years , although they are closely related. Your origins are probably Angle - so, Hi cuz.!! The Angles gave their name to England. After the Anglo-Saxon invasion had built-up strength they advanced downwards and in the process drove out the Celtish people who had lived in England until that time. They moved into Wales - Cornwall and crossed the Channel into Brittany. Which is why their language can still - basically, be understood by the three areas - and probably, why, they're not too keen on English visitors !! I think it would be great if you had time to do a little research - the problem will be that I have lived so many years overseas that I am not in touch with much of the family history - and I am one of the last of my side of the family. Whilst old families are fascinating for their history - my Father always told me ' It is what you do in your life - not others'. I hope we can stay in touch. Mervyn

Dear Helen Your site for the museum is interesting - not too many Zulu items - which is surprising as they are the pre-eminent fighting tribe in Africa. I was interested in the Police truncheon - the Bread Riots were very widespread. I am not sure that the assegais shown are Zulu - would it be possible to see a close-up of the head ? I see you have blow pipes - that is one type where the locals have learned to make a long hole through a length of wood. They do it by sitting on a tree branch with the wood between their legs - they have a number of metal rods of the diameter required and then heat them red hot in a fire. Helpers keep passing up fresh rods and gradually they burn through the wood to make a suitable pipe. Because they come under the definition of a firearm, having a 'barrel capable of firing a projectile' they can be classed as a firearm under the Act. My cousin was the official doctor to the Royal Geographic expedition to Borneo and brought me one back. They made her sit on the tarmac and scrape the poison off the darts before she could board the RAF plane that carried them !! I do hope you will stay a member - you have lots of interestings things to share !! Mervyn

Dear Tony The one you found in SWB would have been a relative of some sort - our surname - with various spellings , is all one family. We are Angles, descended from a tribe called the Zwiccu who settled in Shropshire in the 7th. Century! When I wrote the notes above I was having trouble remembering his birth names - Henry, was how my G/mother always referred to him, but I never knew him. Should someone have access to either the Leicester of Northampton rolls for that period he will obviously be on them. I have just checked and I put Derbyshire in my notes, I'm now a little confused myself, as to which he was in - sorry, put it down to age. Thankyou for taking the trouble to look. Mervyn

Same questions - just no solder. I did ask a jeweller if it could be removed - he said it was silver solder and to remove would damage the silver in the coin.

Where better to bring a coin enquiry , then to a sub-forum such as this ! I bought this and the following 6d. pieces a while ago.Dated 1892 the 5/- piece is for the ZAR - Zuid Afrikaans Republic - the other side in the Boer War. There is a blob of silver solder on the base,on each side - must have been mounted. It is about the size of a British 5/- I will be most grateful for any info, possible value and does the silver blob affect price very much?

My Grandparents - Henry and Harriet Mitton. My Grandmother was born in India in 1873 - she was the youngest daughter of a regular in the Indian Army. I have an old photo which shows her as a baby in the arms of the ayah (nurse) and my Great-Grandfather in uniform and wearing a shako. I think he was also the RSM of his Regt. but, to be honest I've never really gone into the background. My G/father was commissioned as Captain and quartermaster at the outbreak of WW1 in 1914 and was transferred to the Derbyshire Regt.. I remember my G/mother saying he was shot in the spine and paralysed - he died in 1933, she died in 1949. She lived comfortably on her army pension. In the photo, my Father is in the front - he was born in 1910 - so, this photo must have been taken in about 1915. His brother ,on the left, became the leading stockbroker in London and was in partnership with R.A.B.Butler's(Chancellor) brother. The brother behind,was in Singapore at it's surrender and with his wife and daughter (now a retired doctor in Capetown) were on the last boat to leave for Australia. He was lost to the family from 1937 to 1956, when we discovered them living in S.A.. There was an elder brother - he was an officer in the army. Amazing the memories a small beaker can bring ! Hope you find it interesting - any help will be appreciated. Mervyn (if you look at my photo on profile you will see the family likeness to my G'father - but no moustache)

My Grandfather Henry Mitton, when he was the colour sgt. of the Leicestershire Regt. - you will see he has the sash over his right shoulder and he carries a sword. This rank and the RSM were issued with them. I understand that he went on to be the R.S.M. - however, he died in 1933 and I never knew him. Have never found his medal entitlement - but, it must have been impressive. I know he was in India - in the Tirah campaign - and I think that is the Sudan medal he is wearing - not too clear. He served in the Boer War and of course, the 1st.WW. I think the Crown is Edward 7th. - but, he could still have been in Sth.Africa.

The larger beaker folded down into the body of the leather box - the smaller went into the raised part of the lid, you take the top off this part. Because of the engineering, when you pull them up, they are perfectly watertight.