Dudeman

Yes, Rick?s contributions here are laudable.

I too would like to think I have humbly assisted the hobby in general and have promoted this site in the past, now regrettably. In particular, I've also done favors off-line for many (most?) of the forum subscribers here - in particular, Ed Haynes and Christophe with other things, but not limited to free, professional translations. I?ve also offered my services to others here via PMs who did not choose to accept them. I don?t wear personal favors on my sleeve or use them as a subterfuge, however.

Loyalty is nice, but still does not diminish my initial posting. I took issue with Rick?s orthodox insistence on his personal preference vis-?-vis a forum subscriber?s use of hobby standard (and yes, correct) terminology. I also demonstrated that in light of his abilities, Rick may not be in a position to criticize others? translations or others' use of them.

Whether or not you perceive this as snide or insulting is up to you.

By the way... I must insist that this NOT be referred to as a "Combat Service Medal." I know that many Soviet dealers lazily, sloppily, and INCORRECTLY stick to that, but it is still WRONG. "Service" is "Sluzhba." This is "Zasluga" which is "Merit." The same gross error is perpetually perpetrated on the German War Merit (Verdienst) Crosses, which are NOT "War Service" (Dienst) Crosses.

Some may argue that "Voeyeviye" is "Combat," but realistically, I prefer the blander but more accurate "Military." Out of all the many millions ever awarded, the overwhleming majority were peacetime awards for 10 years long service and had NOTHING to do with "combat" at all.

So PLEASE use "Military Merit Medal" or if you must, "Combat Merit Medal," but never never never NEVER "Combat Service Medal!"

Rick, this is your forum and you can call insist on calling a Combat Service Medal a "spade" if you prefer, but you should not criticize forum members for using, dare I say, the hobby standard over your "preference." The medal's title "Za boevye zaslugi" is tricky to translate yes, but Combat Service Medal is a perfectly fine variant, as attested to by Igor and others.

First, the medal was founded in 1938 to recognize COMBAT actions in Khalkhin Gol & Hasan - the actual very first recipients were Border Guards who apprehended violent criminals. The subsequent 1.2 or so MILLION decorations prior to late 1944 were awarded for COMBAT actions (of course with minor exceptions) and most of the subsequent recipients up 3.5+ million were also COMBAT veterans, whether they received the actual medal for their long SERVICE including combat or not.

Second, "zaslugi" or merit, in Russian is in the plural: cumulative merit = service. "Service" as used in the Combat Service Medal also captures the ideal that the medal was awarded largely post-1944 for long service.

Finally, Military Merit Medal works too, but by using that term you limit yourself to military and disregard Border Guard, NKVD, MVD, partisan, et al recipients. I would argue "martial" is actually a better word than "combat" or "military", but sounds pretty stupid in English.

Before you insist on lingual purity and disparage others' "lazy" and "sloppy" translations, you may want to look a little closer to home. Your translations, like "machinegun-artillery brigade" for "cannon artillery brigade", "flamethrower reconnaissance officer" for "intelligence officer in a flamethrower battalion" (I can guarantee you the good major wasn't putting on face paint and doing a passage of lines into no-man's land), learn what a "orudiinii nomer" is and I could continue.

"...pri vybytii kommandira (incomplete word here)eleniye smelo vzyal komandovaniye na sebya i prodolozhal vesti boi."

does indeed say

"at the withdrawal/dropping out/departure of the commander (incomplete word) boldly seized command for himself and continued to lead the combat."

If the commander had been wounded and withdrawn for that reason, I agree with the translator that this would have been worded differently. The verb here is the same used on the "Capture Of" medals, and use of seized/captured/TOOK (in that aggressive sense of the word) is a far different sense than if all his superiors being casualties, command devolved upon him as the ranking soldier. The implication here is that while somebody else MIGHT have taken command, HE was the one who did so.

The phrasing suggests a moment of shock under fire, when in some sort of confusion but requiring an instantaneous reaction, he seized the initiative and led by example, carrying the day.

The sense that I get from this wording suggests a very grim and summary fate for his panicked/"cowardly" superior.

I never said the soldier didn't "assumed command".

His commander, however, was "taken out of action" or "put out of action". This is a common, passive voice phrase and infers the commander was wounded, contused, or killed in action. To make the leap that the commander "panicked" is simply wrong.

Absolutely, Doc. Did you catch that ". . . when a sub-unit commander had quitted the ranks . . ." bit?!

This is NOT correct.

That photo of Dmitrusenko seems vaguely familiar. I've seen it in some sort of "red" book me thinks.

Yeah, seems kind of ironic when theft of intellectual property is being discussed...

at the risk of his own life, saved the life of his commander under heavy machine gun fire during an enemy counterattack.

Although this is generally correct, there is no mention of "heavy" or "machinegun" in this citation.

I believe row 8 #2 from left is the North Korean WWII victory medal

Although of little help, the top two words are "Here is buried..." You really must supply a better picture.

Dudeman, do you remember if the serialnumber style were similar to this one?

/Kim

Your s/n is done with a rotating "Dremel" tool. The ones I saw were machine-engraved and the numbers were "blocked" as opposed to slanted, cursive.

At second glance, this may be for the middle east. The citation mentions the ZSU-23-4 which is a tracked vehicle AA gun. If it were a ZU 23-4 (without the "S" for "samokhodnaya" or self-propelled), it would be more likely to be in SE Asia manned by Russian advisors.

Does anyone know if ZSU 23-4 (the "tank-looking" version, versus the 4-barrelled ground mount) was in SE Asia?

Any idea WHEN this Hang? badge was issued? On a jubilee year-- 25th... 40th.... ?

I've had two of these badges, 1767 and 2702. A document accompanying one of them was dated 1968, so maybe the 25th anniversary? Incidentally, the badge pictured here has the same overall design as my two, yet stylistic aspects are slightly different. As a result I think this particular one may have been a restrike or second factory's production.

Good morning Vietnam! And written up by a 3-star general...

Is this one considered a znachok too?:

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?s=&showtopic=6...indpost&p=74880

Its the only other numbered veterans badge, i have seen so far.

Yes. It is for the Russian civil war and rare too.

Dudeman,

Rick mentions a Major General Pavel Selivestrovich GAVRIKOV.

Dolf

If he's identified a particular person, than go with it. A cursive, cyrillic, lower-case "k" can frequently look like a cyrillic "n". It's so small I can't see.

Just got this in the mail and thought I would share. It's a badge for veteran's of the fighting at Hanko/Hang? or Gangut in Russian. Hanko is a penninsula in Finland the Russian got after the Winterwar.

These veteran's badges are not that expensive but rich in history. And finding one from that special unit can be a real treasure hunt.

/Kim

Now if I just could find the document or documented medal group...

This Hanko badge issue is the only veteran znachok I remember seeing with a s/n on it.

Odessa: issued by Commander of Bases/Rear Area of the Black Sea Fleet, Marine MajorGeneral ... I can't read it. I have the WW2 navy admirals and marine generals book, so need a sharper, clear closeup scan and should be able to identify him. It looks like "Tavrinov" but there wasn't anyone that name in the navy.

Gavrinov

The Major General commanding 37th Army's signals troops continues to baffle me. The signature could be either Tu-rovsky or Gits-rovsky (yes, it is THAT bad)

Turovsky. The first letter with the three perpendicular lines and top bar is a cursive, capital "T"

Is anyone out there conversant enough with Polish ranks and units to translate the following entries on Polish Long Service Medal documents:

1. Robotnikowi fizycznemu ze Skladynicy Mat. Int. Nr. 13 w Bialymstokn

2. Pracownikowi kontraktowemu w Polskim Monopolu Tytoniowym

While I can wade through several languages, this one eludes me entirely.

Thanks,

Jeff Floyd

An educated GUESS:

1. Warehouse worker in Supply Warehouse #13 (Bialystok, Poland)

2. Contract Laborer in Polish (?)

#6 is for Tadjikistan, not Kazakhstan. T is still wild, wild west while K would be R&R by comparison.

Coming soon:

http://www.historicalresearch.com/books.html

FYI I have on file:

139.851 23.1.44 11 Guards Rifle Corps

141.661 22.6.44 1 Guards Assault Aviation Corps

Although the photos are not clear, post 10 top is a pass to see a parade. The bottom probably is too.

Am I the only one who believes these are not mint issue/manufacture? Originals are mini works of art with nice enameling, beautiful separate details, and crisp lettering. If it's not too much trouble can we see a reverse shot?

2) the years of service don't seem to add up--

if he joined 1 January 1939, how did he have 20 years in by the end of December 1956?

This is a TERRIFIC group.

Since he was born in 1918, it could be he did his compulsory service time 1936-1938 time period and then went for officerhood. This enlisted time may not have been reflected in his officer record and account for the 20 years by 1956.

Are they real fakes or representative Soviet Badges?

Because they are obviously not real, I too tend to believe that these had some purpose other than to deceive, i.e. as decorative devices on wall displays or some other kind of substitutes for the real thing. These have been around for a while and I don't think anyone (other than ebay ) would try to pass them off as the real deal.

I'm afraid more than the bottom right are souvenir badges.

Starting with the top three in the upper left, I've never seen such goony-bird looking planes. Also, one of the them doesn't even say "Master", but SSSR and then adds a "D" and a "U" along with a similar wierd "Instructor" that adds letters in the third row. All of the pre-'55 badges look bizarro.

Can you tell us anything about these - are they acknowledged homemade pieces or what?

I'm not saying people didn't wear or make these intending to deceive, but the only ones I would say are "real" or at least official issue are the '68 issues (single hole suspension), the '55 instructor in the bottom row (with double suspension loops), and the DOSAAF sportsmen ones.