Dieter3

Great, great thread!!!

Ah the scary shiny back comes back to haunt us.

Paul

????

I don't get it. Please explain.

SOLD!

http://page6.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/f124633151

I actually thought it would bring in more than that though.

Comparative box sizes (Constitution, Visit and 1895 War Medal)

Nice comparison photo!

Interesting box with inlay

I wonder what inscription says

Something to the meaning "Made by Ohashi for the Japan Red Cross". Rich could probably provide a better, more accurate translation. 1st Line - Japan Red Cross, that's the easy one! Second line "Goyou" - having the meaning of "contract" in some context. 3rd Line the Tokyo location, 4th line company name, and made (by). I'm assuming the medal was made by Ohashi, maybe medal and box?

Notice the edges - just like all of the basic membership medal lapel pins that still are attached to their paper backings - reminds of stamps - like these are made on a big sheet for easy separation.

That one has seen better days!

I very mich doubt there ever was a case for this medal - BUT - if there was, what do you guys think the likely design would have been?

I'd guess it would have been similar to the China Incident war medal on the order of materials, obviously with a different insert for the commemorative style ribbon. I'm sure you all saw last year that one that was auctioned on Yahoo - red one - it looked like a very nicely made case. Red? Well, maybe.

Gimme, gimme!! Me wants it, the precious!

Is that yours Nick?

Yes, and as you know, I am extremely picky when it comes to this. "MINT" - is extremely rare, understandably so. I think the term gets tossed around very loosely when it comes to medals!

Well, I guess it depends on one's definition of "mint". This one isn't mint in my humble opinion. You can see soiling on the ribbon, probably shows more in photos than to the naked eye - but still. The medallion ain't bad, but if the claim is mint, it's gotta be the whole deal! Note the upper lid panel is missing too.

Evidence time!

That's what I'm talking about! :love:

So sweet. Thanks for posting these wonderful pictures!

Really?!

We don't trust to anyone!

Well, check the Rich site and I bet you'll see one in the section devoted to this medal.

There were a couple of them at YJ, so he definitely should have the pictures

No, not so much about trusting - but things are somewhat up to a degree of scrutiny without evidence. Cases are pretty good evidence of officialdom, at least I think so! Documents are not as that is merely a name, and we know awards were given to both men and women in I'd imagine every instance! I have seen the woman's medals on Rich's site but there was no case shown, hence my tremendous interest! One reason for me being skeptical is photographic evidence of women wearing the Imperial Constitution Medal that is on the normal ribbon, not a bow, though there examples of this medal on a bow - which begs the question, was the bow official or not? Or were they fabrications to sex something up to appear to be more rare, or were they simply custom-made for the recipient at their request?

It is not surprising that the Capital Rehabilitation medal would be on a bow. But I do wonder about the rhyme and reason for some medals to be, and some to not be. Like the Taisho Enthronement Medal, but not the National Census medal. Perhaps it is purely financial? I'd imagine the woman's ribbon to be more expensive than the normal ribbons, so maybe the decision to do this went with the times based on the numbers expected to be issued? I just don't know, but I am very curious.

Dieter,

yes there is also a Showa 7, 3-gatsu wrapper; I have one. Except for the date everything is the same as for the other ones.

The women's issue of the medal is official, and mine comes with the typical square case for women. I will bother Nick again and send him tomorrow some pictures of it to post here, since I still don't know how to do that.

Pieter

Niiiice!!! Looking forward to seeing it! I'm wondering - there must not have been too many medals for Showa 7? I've never seen one. Seen lots of Showa 5 wrappers.

... and I'll post them by Satuday

P.S. Undoubtedly there was an official woman's version of this medal.

Well, not sure. I've never seen one for sale or in photos! But if Pieter has a case for one, I think that lends it credibility. I'd be more iffy if it was simply a medal on a woman's bow!

Does anyone know what the difference is of the wrap with Showa 6th year, 2-gatsu (February) and Showa 7th year 3-gatsu (March). Was the later issue to award claims for the medal that came in later?

Pieter

Is there a Showa 7th Year Wrapper? I haven't seen that one, just 5th and 6th. I'll keep my eyes open! I haven't closely compared the 5th and 6th year wrappers.

I think they simply minted and awarded them for several years.

Same story with Showa medals. As far as I remember they minted and awarded them in 1928, 1929 and 1930.

Seems correct so far! I've seen the 3 years you mention, not sure what the final month of production is.

Nick,

you are right, I immediattely checked my two Capital Rehabilitation medals; one the regular issue for men and one with the bow ribbon for women. Both have the M mark.

Pieter

Pieter - do you have a case for the woman's award? I'm interested to know if the woman's bow was official or not, or if these were custom-made.

35,000 seems like a good figure, just on the surface. How many do you see on auction each month? 5? 10? I think the higher number is possible--10 each month on ebay. And then say you watch the auctions for 10 years, and if the numbers remained constant, you would have seen 1,200 different medals (not even thinking about medals that get re-circulated in the collecting field). That means you still would have seen only a small percentage of the actual medals minted.

Now of course, I don't think anyone has written down all the auctions for the last 10 years, but I don't think you are seeing 10 of these medals for sale every month, are you? We have to think of worldwide sales, I know, but still... Even if you double the numbers (20 each month) you get a small fraction of 35,000.

The source I have is the 100 years of the Decoration Bureau records. Only the primary documents have been transcribed, so there is no summary or commentary. That being said, 35,000 medals were budgeted on January 18, 1930. The raw materials for each medal cost 1,000 yen each, for a total of 35,000 yen. The minting costs (total, not including the raw materials) were 52,500 yen. The cases for that number of medals cost 200 yen each--total of 7,000 yen. The ribbons cost 300 yen each. The paper wraps were 90 yen each.

What excellent, trivial information! Prized by only a few... perhaps even less than a few.

Fascinating data! So, roughly between May of 2009 thru Septmeber of 2011 - a total of 60 combined medals on eBay and Yahoo! Japan. I'm sure I missed some. Roughly 2 medals month. I think a safe number would be 3-5. 10 seems high! Gotta figure too a number of these medals have probably been destroyed by various means, including war, etc. Who knows how many though.

Rich, I think the data you are finding is AWESOME. This is what I love about the hobby, almost as much as the medals themselves!

I have just found official documents from the Decorations Bureau that show exactly who was to receive these--and the number of medals they expected to give.

And the group does indeed include collaborators from Korea, Taiwan, Sakhalin, and the South Pacific territories. No apologies necessary for those who said I was misleading customers on my ebay auction. It just made sense--strengthened by the home front medal description from Nick Komiya. Those who contributed to the war effort would have been eligible for one of these medals. And those who contributed from abroad would both get the medal and be looked down upon by his/her countrymen.

Full details, including numbers, will be included in my February newsletter issue. Sorry to plug my wares...

Rich, you da MAN!

I hope you send out reminder emails to subscribers if their subscriptions are about to expire! I don't want to miss any of the news letters!

Now, I’m looking for the award document to complete this set

They're out there! Rare. I've never seen one on ePay, but I'm sure they've popped up there too.

Now you need another medal with a wrapper marked from Showa 6th year!

Very nice, totally complete! These displays seem to be so often missing at least the lapel pin, or case or whatever! Kudos to the person who put it together complete!

Likey 1920s, late Taisho.

So I'm guessing these are also made by the Japan Mint - with the kanji, "hei" as in zou-hei-kyoku. Never even thought about it before. Any concurence on this?

I don't think it'd sel on eBay USA for that price. In fact it'd have to be about half that before I'd even consider it. Nno ribbon? No thanks. There's me being picky again.....

What a strange, unusual place for the mark!

Is that an EF or an FF?

I wonder who is making these modern replacment cases? Especially for this medal, gotta be a pretty small market! Interior definitely not of the type or quality of originals of course, but a reasonable option if you want to re-case an orphaned medal.

Yes indeed, a significant figure no doubt! I'll be interesed to see what the conservationist will be able to do with this, but it is worth attempting to save and preserve in my opinion. I'm not looking forward to the cost! Cheap document, with an expensive backend. Oh well, it's all part of the fun! I think.

Nick,

if it is any solace, it said will not ship to the Netherlands either. Indeed a bargain for this rare Golden Kite star with some bonus orders added. I wonder whether one of GMIC's US members was the lucky one.

Pieter

Not me!!

Rich, thank you for the reminder! I did indeed go back and check the newsletter as I had totally forgotten this. I'm lucky if I can remember what happened just yesterday! And it typically takes several poundings of information to make it stick in my gray matter.

I should also add that the seller made fair and just compensation for the damage, so I do appreciate that, and nobody on this forum that I know of.