Dieter3

Neat piece!! Here's a few of the pics. for ya from the auction:

Buyers will have to make up their own minds about any given seller and their tactics, and what they are willing to pay. I don't think there is much point in continuing the conversation along this particular track, let's see if we can't get back to the academic line as Richard has suggested!

I don't think there was any sort of business skill or savy involved in any of this. Price low - it's gonna sell. Price high - it may or may not sell, or you sit on it for awhile, but hey - ultimately you might score that deal! It all depends on what you're willing to move an item for and how quickly you need or want the cash!

Something is worth what somebody is willing to pay for it. I'm willing to pay the average, between 50,000-60,000 yen (based on my observations of the past few years) because I'm not swimming in cash. If I was, sure, I'd have bought John's medal for $1500 too! But I can't, I must seek better value. Was it worth the $1500? Sure! To that buyer. Worth $1500 to me? Not at this time. Value is highly subjective. I say more power to a seller that can bring top dollar, business is business. I can begrudge no buyer or seller.

As I've said in other posts...

"Sweeeeeeeeeeeeet..............."

I'm so very impressed with what I see on this forum. Fantastic collections. I just wish I was in that "1%" that everyone talks about here in the U.S. so I could afford more of this stuff! ;)

Ha! Not me. A certain lack of greenbacks thanks to having to get an old car back on the road! :unsure:

Let's just say I avoid anything being sold out of China or Taiwan.....

Like I said.

I found many good medals on Taiwan. But don't make generalizations.

Good for you. I'll generalize all I want. Fakes, copies, piracy, scams, rip-offs, whatever - from China and Taiwan - well established in collecting circles, not only medals. Pretty much everything.

If you are looking for Japanese medals, go to Japan and look for them. I doubt many native Taiwanese were awarded any during the occupation period and also doubt local Chinese were awarded the general type of medals during WWII. So of course you can't find Japanese medals in China or Taiwan, why look??

I only buy (medals) from Japan, the occasional American buy, and the occasional buy from a reputable seller in England we all know. ;)

I saw that one on Yahoo, did it sell?

Yes, I had thought that this case also had the wreath around the lid border like the 25th Wedding Anniversary case, but indeed it does not!

You are intriguing me

The real ones?!

Well, could you tell us why you think this eBay piece is a fake

Let's just say I avoid anything being sold out of China or Taiwan.....

Looks like you are not among potential buyers

Couple of years ago you really liked these

Yeah, but I like the real ones......

Sweeeeeeeet............ :love:

Is that the correct case?

Now that I think of it, why would any medal awarded to an Imperial family member find its way into the public? Besides theft, that is.

Indeed!

And I have long wondered what has become of medals belonging to imperial family members over the years? Are they stored somewhere, do they make the rounds on public display?

If it is indeed "high-precision copy", then it has quite realistical (and usual for Chrysanthemum breast stars) enamel cracks ...

Yes, NEW cracks, manufactured to the highest precision! Like buying NEW jeans complete with holes and wear already built in. ;)

(+) ;)

Just a hunch!

This is of course probable ...

But I think it will be more realistically to assume that these boxes came as a result of dealers activity.

As we both know unboxed kite and boxed one will have quite different prices

Yes, no doubt that some sellers would try to get higher prices by supplying a case, but case hardware makes it pretty obvious that it is not original. And a replacment case? I wonder just how much value it adds vs. the cost of a case?

Look practically identical to me

Look closely - see the latest one - the pin is attached at the edge of the metal plate, and you can't see it from this view, but it actually appears that the the pin and the catch are one piece of wire that runs along the back of the metal plate.

The other one (first one) is two bits of wire soldered in place. Notice the pin is not attached at the edge of the metal plate, but penetrates through a hole more inward. You can't see it either, but the back of the pin's wire just has a small curved tab. The catch part of the wire is only soldered, it doesn't penetrate the metal plate at all.

Well, if anybody does - it's Rich or Paul! I don't have either! :(

HA, HA! But I do use shades of gray like (+) and (-) just to make things more confusing......!!

David, that is a nice looking piece for sure.

When I grade something, it is whatever is present as a package - so if it includes a case, or a rosette, etc., the final grade will be for the whole thing, but the medal is the focus. EX: You if a medal is great but the case is only so, so, it brings down the grading overall, but not terribly so. But if the case is great and the medal is only so-so, it's not going to get highest marks. Highly subjective of course. Age is not a consideration. A piece might be nicer than the average piece observed of a given medal, but it gets no advantage simply because it is old, and "nice for its age" - it either meets uniformly applied definitions or it doesn't. My definitions though are not like most, they tend to be much more harsh. I'm very critical of things, as Nick knows. ;)

So, I really don't know a whole lot about the Golden Kite, particularly the higher class ones other than what I've read in books or here on this forum, which has been fascinating to no small degree.

The recent conversation in the China Incident Commemorative post bewteen Nick and Rich was quite interesting - yes, the China Incident Commemorative talk, but also the Golden Kite talk - with specific mention of a lack of documents and a brief mention about Golden Kite cases including, to the effect that the cases were not absent, unlike the China Inc. Com. medal - but this has me wondering about something -

So, I've seen at least a few 5th Class Golden Kite sets for sale in which at least the medals appear authentic, but the cases are not what one is used to seeing. They have had this kind of hardware on them, which is similar, if not identical to the hardware being used on the cases of modern orders - plain, flat latch, whereas the "factory" Golden Kite cases have a more decorative, elaborate design.

The conversation got me wondering if perhaps some of these medals may have been issued in haste, without cases and that these are indeed post-war replacements? I mean, obviously they are replacements, but I don't know if it is fair to call them "replicas" considering the medals appear authentic. I've seen 3 of these now that I'm paying attention to them, always 5th class from what I've seen. I've not seen them in 7th or 6th class. 4th? Well, they just don't show up all that often anyway, so I've not noted it, but have not been paying attention either (though I will now). The kanji has always been gold and modern look them, not older styles.

Has anybody else seen these, handled any, any theories, or known info on this?

Notice, the pin attachment is somewhat different from the pic. in post #2. I guess there were a few different designs.

Recent arrival, pretty decent condition.

Yep, nice specimen with 1500$ "buy it now" price

Still no takers. I see a few offers, but looks like gunjin is holding his ground!